D&D 5E How Do Monks Survive At Low Levels?

[Leugren]

They shouldn't be struggling. They have good defenses, damage, and mobility until level 5. Sure, they're not Moon Druids, but if your DM is structuring the game around Moon Druids, then that's a completely different kind of problem.

I take it from your use of the word "shouldn't" that you haven't actually played a low-level monk. If I'm mistaken, please tell me what sorts of tactics you used to survive during low-level play. Were you a variant human with the Mobile feat? If not, did you hang back and use ranged weapons? Did you have an ally with Sentinel or the Protection fighting style? Or did you just jump right into the front lines, mixing it up like a fighter, barbarian, or paladin, but with a low AC and low HP? If the latter, then do you think perhaps the DM was going easy on you?

 

[mellored]

They shouldn't be struggling. They have good defenses, damage, and mobility until level 5. Sure, they're not Moon Druids, but if your DM is structuring the game around Moon Druids, then that's a completely different kind of problem.

They don't have good defenses for melee. It's average at best.

They don't have good damage. They will basically be using TWF, or a single ranged attack, same as anyone else does.
Flurry of blows provides a little nova, but not much, not until the ki increases.

They do have better then normal mobility. But that only let's them run away, and again, only 1 ranged attack with no bonuses.

Not saying their impossible to play. But i don't see any class that is worse from 1-4. Particularly if you try and play them as monks, and run up and use unarmed combat. Playing them as archers by running away and shooting works.

Now after 5, they do fine, and with scaling from more ki, bigger damage die, and continually improving AC and mobility, they end up as one of the stronger classes.

Personally i would of started them off with d6 damage dice.

 

[Rhogar_Rarr]

I suppose you could invest 3 levels in rogue/swashbuckler to get the free melee disengage. But if you take monk 1 / rogue 3, you'd be able to get the Mobile feat at level 4 anyway. Anyway, there are not too many mechanical options for getting a monk in/out of melee at low levels.

I think the best way to survive is to play tactically and cautiously. Hit without getting hit. Dart in to finish off a weak foe or by a creature that has already used its reaction. You may have to fire from range "sub-optimally", but I would personally consider being conscious the optimal choice. Each class progresses at different rates, so you might not be great at level X. I've played a Air Genasi Monk from levels 1-3 so far. I have high hopes for getting my monk to 5 and beyond, but we'll see how that goes.

Being able to shoot while levitating is very fun. To be fair, any ranged class could do that. It'd be hard for a rogue to hide and gain advantage though...

 

[MwaO]

It seems to me that you're just handwaving the whole squishiness issue away by declaring that "monks are fine 'coz they get Stunning Hand at level 5". It's not a good argument. To reach level 5, monks have to survive the levels which precede it, and they are quite weak at those levels thanks to rogue AC, rogue HP, melee-oriented class abilities, and no consistent way to dart in and out of combat. If you were to preface your argument with "I played a monk from levels 1 through X, and I generally had no problems surviving because of Y", then your comments would be more helpful.

Right. Let's look at why you think they're weak and examine if that's real or not...
Rogues can have AC 12(Studded Leather)+Dex(15), Monks get AC 16. The only way to get an AC 16 at the start with Point Buy is to be a Monk, a very strange Barbarian, accept Disadvantage on Stealth, or accept that you're doing less damage with a Shield. Yes, sometimes you're going to get hit because the monsters roll well. Sometimes you're going to get hit because you didn't play a Monk and did less damage than one, so the monster didn't die.

HP. Monk has no real reason to invest in Str, Int, or Cha. So getting a 14 Con is easy to do. That's not true for Rogues, who have Int/Cha tasks typically.

Melee-focused abilities. Tons of other classes are melee focused. Not a big deal. And as I noted, the Monk can throw a javelin and still get off their bonus action attacks. Wait to see if you hit the target and if you do, go in and kill it with your martial arts swing.

No reliable way of darting in and out of combat. Monks are one of the best damage dealers at low level because they do 1d8+3/1d4+3 or an average of 13 damage. That jumps up to 18.5 if they do a Flurry of Blows - and if your DM is playing Short Rests correctly, that's every combat usually by 2nd level. Barbarian not doing a Rage? 10 damage. 7.5 if using a Shield. Rogue? 1d6+3+1d6+1d6 or 13.5. If they have a friend already next to the target. Note how the default Monk does significantly more damage than either of them with the same to-hit chance - enough damage in fact that they have a decent chance of killing their target.

And this is besides the point - you don't generally want to dart in and out of combat in 5e, because in doing so, you're freeing up that target to go unimpeded towards the weakest member of your party. Say the Wizard or Sorcerer. It is almost certainly a net-win if the monsters spend a lot of effort attacking the PC who has already gone rather than the PCs who have yet to go. As the party Monk, you might not appreciate it that your DM is focus firing you, but that's the correct action to do if your DM then spends all his effort going after the wrong target.

 

[Leugren]

They don't have good defenses for melee. It's average at best.

They don't have good damage. They will basically be using TWF, or a single ranged attack, same as anyone else does.
Flurry of blows provides a little nova, but not much, not until the ki increases.

They do have better then normal mobility. But that only let's them run away, and again, only 1 ranged attack with no bonuses.

Not saying their impossible to play. But i don't see any class that is worse from 1-4. Particularly if you try and play them as monks, and run up and use unarmed combat. Playing them as archers by running away and shooting works.

Now after 5, they do fine, and with scaling from more ki, bigger damage die, and continually improving AC and mobility, they end up as one of the stronger classes.

Personally i would of started them off with d6 damage dice.

I agree with every word of this, mellored.

 

[MwaO]

They don't have good defenses for melee. It's average at best.

They don't have good damage. They will basically be using TWF, or a single ranged attack, same as anyone else does.

How is 13 damage with 2 swings not good damage at 1st level or 18.5 damage with 3 swings not good damage from 2-3 and then 21.5 at 4th? What class consistently matches up well with that on round 1 of a combat, no matter what the initiative order is?

Let's remember, we should be making typical campaign assumptions here - Barbarians typically get to rage 1 out 3 combats at low levels as an example. If you're matching up a Barbarian against a Monk where there's just Adventurer League 3-4 combats and no short rest, yes, they don't do as well...

 

[Leugren]

And this is besides the point - you don't generally want to dart in and out of combat in 5e, because in doing so, you're freeing up that target to go unimpeded towards the weakest member of your party. Say the Wizard or Sorcerer. It is almost certainly a net-win if the monsters spend a lot of effort attacking the PC who has already gone rather than the PCs who have yet to go. As the party Monk, you might not appreciate it that your DM is focus firing you, but that's the correct action to do if your DM then spends all his effort going after the wrong target.

You make some fair points, but your stance on darting in and out of combat suggests that you view monks as tanks which they most certainly are not. The monk class is clearly designed as a skirmisher, not a tank. Trying to play a monk as a tank will almost certainly get you killed. Leave the tanking to the paladins, barbarians, and fighters who are much better at it than the monk thanks to abilities such as self-healing, damage resistance, high HP, etc.

 

[Leugren]

I suppose you could invest 3 levels in rogue/swashbuckler to get the free melee disengage. But if you take monk 1 / rogue 3, you'd be able to get the Mobile feat at level 4 anyway. Anyway, there are not too many mechanical options for getting a monk in/out of melee at low levels.

I think the best way to survive is to play tactically and cautiously. Hit without getting hit. Dart in to finish off a weak foe or by a creature that has already used its reaction. You may have to fire from range "sub-optimally", but I would personally consider being conscious the optimal choice. Each class progresses at different rates, so you might not be great at level X. I've played a Air Genasi Monk from levels 1-3 so far. I have high hopes for getting my monk to 5 and beyond, but we'll see how that goes.

Being able to shoot while levitating is very fun. To be fair, any ranged class could do that. It'd be hard for a rogue to hide and gain advantage though...

Thanks, Rhogar_Rarr. I love the idea of a levitating Air Genasi Monk. So the general consensus I'm hearing from most people is to focus on ranged attacks while seeking targets of opportunity that you can engage in melee without getting your butt handed to you. That seems like pretty sound advice!

 

[RangerWickett]

The only reasons to play a 1st level monk instead of a fighter are either

a) you are starting with no gear, like as slaves; or

b) you want to eventually be a 5th level monk.

 

[Leugren]

The only reasons to play a 1st level monk instead of a fighter are either

a) you are starting with no gear, like as slaves; or

b) you want to eventually be a 5th level monk.

I'm sure for most people, it's the latter. I imagine that the tough part is to convince the rest of the group not to cut you from the team while you're pupating. You probably want to emphasize your non-combat skills by volunteering for extra watches at night, policing up the camp, latrine duty, etc.