how do new scores affect hp, after polymorphing?

[Darklone]

I do believe in peoples mathematical education and don't think anyone here does this.

 

[Thanee]

And of course, if hit points actually worked on the delta system that many people have simplified them to - we'd have recreational blood drain.

Not this ridiculous example again...

The minimum of 1 per hit die only applies for rolling new hit points, it's not a general rule. Once your hit point total is established, you can even go into the negative with temporary modifiers, I suppose.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

Yes it is. It's the desription of Constitution and attribute bonuses as well as the description of bonuses and stacking. Pages 6 and 8 of the PHB as well as the DMG's detailing of bonus types and stacking.

Erm... and what exactly on those pages would say so!?

I can give you another quote... p. 309 "hit point total increases ... with ... increases in Constitution." It doesn't say, "is replaced by a higher hit point total, when your Constitution increases."

Or how about this? p. 59 "...adding the new hit points to the previous total."

Gaining "+1 Hit Point a level" wouldn't even stack with the 2 extra hit points per level you already have - because it's a "Constitution Bonus" and like bonuses don't stack.

I don't think hit points work like this, gaining hit points is not some kind of bonus like normally used in the rules. With your interpretation, you couldn't even get the bonus for more than one hit die, as it wouldn't stack with itself obviously! Heck, you couldn't even gain new hit dice by leveling up...

As soon as you change Constitution without changing hit points, even once, you'd have to go back and look at the chart every time you changed Constitution again.

You just have to remember every part of the sum, not just the end result and discard the rest, so you can apply any changes necessary. This is no problem at all.

Bye
Thanee

 

[FrankTrollman]

I don't think hit points work like this, gaining hit points is not some kind of bonus like normally used in the rules. With your interpretation, you couldn't even get the bonus for more than one hit die, as it wouldn't stack with itself obviously!

Actually, the modifier is applied to specific roll (page 8). That roll is "Each roll of a hit die" (page 9). So your counter example is trivial and false.

You just have to remember every part of the sum, not just the end result and discard the rest, so you can apply any changes necessary. This is no problem at all.

I'm not saying it's difficult - it's just that the rules never ever tell you to do that. The math to make things work like that wouldn't be hard to conceptualize - but that's not what they say. They say to apply the whole modifier to a roll - they do not say to multiply the differences in modifiers by your level and add them to your rolls.

Your idea would not be hard to implement - but this is a discussion of what the rules say. And your idea is not in the rules. And the writers of those rules are on board with the fact that your idea is not in them.

-Frank

 

[FrankTrollman]

Not this ridiculous example again...

The minimum of 1 per hit die only applies for rolling new hit points, it's not a general rule. Once your hit point total is established, you can even go into the negative with temporary modifiers, I suppose.

Bye
Thanee

Actually - no you can't.

A hit point score can't be reduced by Constitution damage or drain to less than 1 hit point per hit die.

Kindly learn the rules before arguing them.

-Frank

 

[Thanee]

Actually, the modifier is applied to specific roll (page 8). That roll is "Each roll of a hit die" (page 9).

Right, because they are done seperately and then added up, and not a grand total, like you claim.

The math to make things work like that wouldn't be hard to conceptualize - but that's not what they say. They say to apply the whole modifier to a roll - they do not say to multiply the differences in modifiers by your level and add them to your rolls.

Well, actually they do on multiple occasions (like the Rage ability - p.25 "increases ... hit points by 2 points per level").

Bye
Thanee

 

[FrankTrollman]

Right, because they are done seperately and then added up, and not a grand total, like you claim.

No.

The Constitution bonus is applied as a single monolithic bonus to each hit die roll. Just like Intelligence is applied as a single monolithic modifier to each Search check roll.

There is nothing whatsoever that would lead us to believe that Constitution modifiers in any way break the normal rules for modifiers.

-Frank

 

[Thanee]

A hit point score can't be reduced by Constitution damage or drain to less than 1 hit point per hit die.

How about Bestow Curse? That's neither damage nor drain, AFAIK. It's a simple decrease and should be able to kill someone with a low Con (like 7) and bad rolls for hit points (never gotten more than 1 hp during level up).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

No.

The Constitution bonus is applied as a single monolithic bonus to each hit die roll. Just like Intelligence is applied as a single monolithic modifier to each Search check roll.

That's right... wasn't that basically what I was saying, too?

There is nothing whatsoever that would lead us to believe that Constitution modifiers in any way break the normal rules for modifiers.

Absolutely agree there.

Talking about hit points total here, not single hit dice and adding Con modifier to them.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

So what about my three quotes, which all say, that new hit points are indeed added to the total (and if they come from a Con increase are multiplied by level before adding) and not a new total is calculated and the old replaced with it (which is, what you claim, if I got you right)?

Bye
Thanee