how do new scores affect hp, after polymorphing?

[Vash]

In D&D 3.5, the spell Polymorph is listed as the same as Alter Self, with the exception of the changes listed in the Polymorph spell description.

Alter Self says you keep your ability scores, your hp, your BAB, your base saves, etc etc... basically you just look like the thing, you dont get its powers, except physical qualities.

Polymorph, however, gives you the Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution of the creature. But what the description doesnt mention is, what does that affect?

I assume your saves change, not the base save but from the score bonuses.
And skill bonuses from scores.

But in Alter Self it says you keep your hit points, and Polymorph doesnt mention how your new Constitution affects your hit points. Do you keep your hit die, and calculate the new total hit points based on the new Constitution bonus? Or do you just keep your original hit point total, as if your Constitution hadn't gone up?

 

[Alzrius]

In D&D 3.5, the spell Polymorph is listed as the same as Alter Self, with the exception of the changes listed in the Polymorph spell description.

Alter Self says you keep your ability scores, your hp, your BAB, your base saves, etc etc... basically you just look like the thing, you dont get its powers, except physical qualities.

Polymorph, however, gives you the Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution of the creature. But what the description doesnt mention is, what does that affect?

I assume that these new scores affect pretty much everything relevant to them, including bonus hit points due to Constitution - as I understand it, thats the benefit to using the Polymorph spell and not just Alter Self; this time the ability score changes do come into play, giving you a greater benefit. Add those new score bonuses to your to hit and damage rolls, initiative and AC, bonus hit points, saves, skill modifiers, etc.

Remember, the description basically says that its like Alter Self except for the description there, so the Polymorph description should be taken over the Alter Self one.

 

[FrankTrollman]

I've seen several different reasonings, but one way or another the "official" types have come out and said that Polymorph can change Hit Points by virtue of a new Con Score.

-Frank

 

[Darklone]

Finally a clarification. Was it a post on the WotC boards or email, FrankT?

 

[Vash]

Remember, the description basically says that its like Alter Self except for the description there, so the Polymorph description should be taken over the Alter Self one.

I know that, but in the new rules of Polymorph, it doesn't specifically say where to apply the new scores. In 3.0, there was a little blurb that said you keep the same hit points regardless of your new con score, but in 3.5 all it says is you get the str, dex, and con of the new creature.

So is it that the new con bonus applies to skills, and save bonuses, and con checks, but not to HP? Because Alter Self says your hp doesnt change, and Polymorph doesnt mention specifically where you apply the bonuses, does that mean your hp still doesnt change, like it didnt in 3.0 rules? Or is it that the new bonuses apply everywhere?

 

[Thanee]

Why should Alter Self mention, that your hit points do not change, anyways? It's not like the spell would do that, or am I missing something there?

But I don't think hit points will change with Polymorph, Alter Self clearly says they don't, Polymorph doesn't say, they do, so Alter Self takes precedence here. Yes, your Con score changes, but it's still said, that your hit points don't change, so obviously the Con change is much like the 3.0 one applied only to other areas (i.e. Fort save).

Frank, if you have a quote or link, where those officials specifically say, that hit points are changed, then please let us know!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Li Shenron]

It's a long-debated question.

Currently I am on the opinion that you keep the base hit points due to your HD and feats such as Toughness, but you adjust them accordingly to your new Constitution. This changes both your maximum and current hp, but at the end of the spell's duration the extra hp go away, so the help you get from them is limited.

 

[Li Shenron]

Why should Alter Self mention, that your hit points do not change, anyways? It's not like the spell would do that, or am I missing something there?

I am not sure, but the first time I read the Alter Self spell, I thought this was simply a clarification on the fact that you do not get the creature's HD nor HP. If you are Wizard 3 and alters yourself into a Bugbear (3d8 HD), you are still 3d4 because of your Wiz levels. Furthermore, once you are for example 20th level, Alter Self lets you assume the form of a creature up to 5 HD, but clearly this doesn't make you lose 15 HD worth of HP.

I don't think this clarification was meant to prevent the new constitution (if changed) to influence the HP.

 

[Darklone]

I like this "change" since it would keep druids from putting everything in Constitution and Wisdom...

The bad side: They don't even need Con anymore

 

[Li Shenron]

I like this "change" since it would keep druids from putting everything in Constitution and Wisdom...

The bad side: They don't even need Con anymore

I would not really count on this bonus that much, just like I wouldn't consider the HP bonus while raging a great advantage. The only benefit is that you have more time before you are dead to get healed by a cleric or potion. Not bad, but I would still like to have a good Con for when I switch back.