How do Saga skills work?

[Nifft]

It still does not sounds too bad. I mean, say a 1st level Human has Knowledge(Arcana) as a trained skill, and he took the Skill Focus feat in it and he has a +3 int mod. He would have a +14 to his knowledge check which is pretty good for 1st level. I know this is using 3.X terms, but the system does not seem so bad from what I have heard of it.

The way I look at it is through opposed rolls:

1st level specialist = d20 + 10 + modifier
1st level shlub = d20 + modifier
20th level specialist = d20 + 20 + modifier
20th level shlub = d20 + 10 + modifier

A 1st level specialist is at or near the same ability level as a 20th level guy who focused elsewhere.

A 20th level specialist is almost always going to win against a 1st level guy who focused elsewhere -- only if the shlub's ability modifier exceeds the 20th level guy's modifier does he even have a chance.

It looks really nice on paper. I need to play more Saga before I can say how it plays out.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Klaus]

Also note, you can only Take 10 in skills you are trained in.

Visit the Modern forum here at EN World and download The_Gneech's conversions of Star Wars Saga into Sword & Sorcery Saga.

 

[Gloombunny]

If different classes give different numbers of trained skills, how does that work with multiclassing?

 

[Nifft]

If different classes give different numbers of trained skills, how does that work with multiclassing?

It doesn't.

That's the one part which needs fixing I think.

In Saga, there's no way to get Trained in cross-class skills. So to get an out-of-class skill, you need to do two things: multi-class, and then take a feat.

I'd like it if there were some choice when you multi-class -- like, you get a starting Talent OR you get Trained in two class skills.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Green Knight]

It still does not sounds too bad. I mean, say a 1st level Human has Knowledge(Arcana) as a trained skill, and he took the Skill Focus feat in it and he has a +3 int mod. He would have a +14 to his knowledge check which is pretty good for 1st level. I know this is using 3.X terms, but the system does not seem so bad from what I have heard of it.

+13, actually. You get a +1 to your skill checks for every two levels. So the bonus only increases at 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 12th, etc, levels.

 

[KarinsDad]

In Saga, there's no way to get Trained in cross-class skills. So to get an out-of-class skill, you need to do two things: multi-class, and then take a feat.

I'd like it if there were some choice when you multi-class -- like, you get a starting Talent OR you get Trained in two class skills.

Cheers, -- N

I think it would be ok to pick up one feat (out of x) like Saga currently does and one trained skill (out of y) like Saga currently does not.

 

[KarinsDad]

The way I look at it is through opposed rolls:

1st level specialist = d20 + 10 + modifier
1st level shlub = d20 + modifier
20th level specialist = d20 + 20 + modifier
20th level shlub = d20 + 10 + modifier

...

It looks really nice on paper. I need to play more Saga before I can say how it plays out.

Actually, it doesn't work quite as well on paper:

The shlub is going to have +0 in the modifier and the starting specialist is often going to have +3:

1st level specialist = d20 + 13
1st level shlub = d20
20th level specialist = d20 + 25
20th level shlub = d20 + 10

I think the game designers should seriously consider making Skill Focus +3 and Trained Skill +3 (either that or make Trained Skill +5 and get rid of the Skill Focus Feat). A delta of 13 to 15 is too great and the same problem as 3E.

A delta of 9 to 11 mathematically works much better. IMO.

 

[Nifft]

I think it would be ok to pick up one feat (out of x) like Saga currently does and one trained skill (out of y) like Saga currently does not.

That might work.

Multi-classing is already pretty good, though. You get 1 feat (starting) + 1 Talent (because everyone gets Talents at odd class levels). If you're dipping just for the Talent (as I often do when building SW Saga characters), then the skill may be too good.

Cheers, -- N

 

[KarinsDad]

That might work.

Multi-classing is already pretty good, though. You get 1 feat (starting) + 1 Talent (because everyone gets Talents at odd class levels). If you're dipping just for the Talent (as I often do when building SW Saga characters), then the skill may be too good.

Well, the feat typically isn't that great when you dip, so you are getting a good Talent and a so so Feat and giving up a good Feat (i.e. a Feat designed for your class) to gain this.

Additionally, you also for nearly all classes give up +1 BAB (and gain 1 or 2 in a Defense).

So, multiclassing is ok, but not necessarily great in SWSE. I don't think adding in one trained skill makes it overwhelming. Just a solid choice.

 

[drothgery]

That might work.

Multi-classing is already pretty good, though. You get 1 feat (starting) + 1 Talent (because everyone gets Talents at odd class levels). If you're dipping just for the Talent (as I often do when building SW Saga characters), then the skill may be too good.

A house rule that a lot of people have implemented (including me, though none of my players have actually multiclassed their PCs) is allowing characters the option of taking Skill Training in one of their new class skills instead of taking one of their new class starting feats when they multiclass.

Additionally, you also for nearly all classes give up +1 BAB (and gain 1 or 2 in a Defense).

I've houseruled in quick and dirty fractional BAB. Because there are only two BAB progressions in SWSE (full and 3/4), I've just said you can add up all your levels in 3/4 BAB classes and treat them as one class for purposes of figuring BAB.