How do Saga skills work?

[pawsplay]

It still does not sounds too bad. I mean, say a 1st level Human has Knowledge(Arcana) as a trained skill, and he took the Skill Focus feat in it and he has a +3 int mod. He would have a +14 to his knowledge check which is pretty good for 1st level. I know this is using 3.X terms, but the system does not seem so bad from what I have heard of it.

It falls down in three principal cases:

- Characters who are "trained" in a skill but not exceptional. A monk's Listen skill might be an example, for a typical fighter's Ride skill. But in Saga, everyone who is trained and close to the same level has the same bonus, unless someone took Skill Focus.
- Mutliclassed characters who are less than level 6 have a hard time training in a variety of skills, without house rules being involved.
- There is no way to train in a non-class skill, since that would make it, effectively, a trained class skill.

Everything else is a corner case. Those are the three main complaints for me.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

Pawsplay, my suggestion above handles your second and third cases. Can you tweak it to handle your first?

 

[IanArgent]

It falls down in three principal cases:

- Characters who are "trained" in a skill but not exceptional. A monk's Listen skill might be an example, for a typical fighter's Ride skill. But in Saga, everyone who is trained and close to the same level has the same bonus, unless someone took Skill Focus.

Correct - this is a feature, not a bug. If you're trained, you're trained. Exceptional ability would be via stat bonus. Exceptional training is via skill focus.

The massive variability in capability is not something I'll miss. Stat bonus is enough for that imho.

 

[pawsplay]

Correct - this is a feature, not a bug. If you're trained, you're trained. Exceptional ability would be via stat bonus. Exceptional training is via skill focus.

The massive variability in capability is not something I'll miss. Stat bonus is enough for that imho.

You end up with the case where "the best starfighter in the galaxy" has the same Pilot skill as "another starfighter in the galaxy who is the same level." I'm not talking about massive variations in capability. A Soldier versus a Scout has a very similar BAB, but massive differences in stealth ability. I'm thinking more of comparing one Scout to another.

 

[IanArgent]

You end up with the case where "the best starfighter in the galaxy" has the same Pilot skill as "another starfighter in the galaxy who is the same level." I'm not talking about massive variations in capability. A Soldier versus a Scout has a very similar BAB, but massive differences in stealth ability. I'm thinking more of comparing one Scout to another.

But there's nothing preventing that from happening NOW. Character level is the only thing that matters for this purpose, really. (OK, for the sake of argument, I suppose that you don't HAVE to max a skill - but it's going to happen).

The best starfighter in the galaxy is a higher level character than the next-best (discounting stat bonuses). No matter whether you look at D&D 3.5 or SWSE.

 

[Campbell]

You end up with the case where "the best starfighter in the galaxy" has the same Pilot skill as "another starfighter in the galaxy who is the same level." I'm not talking about massive variations in capability. A Soldier versus a Scout has a very similar BAB, but massive differences in stealth ability. I'm thinking more of comparing one Scout to another.

That's not entirely true. In fact, it isn't true at all. The pilot is as good as a pilot of the same level who has also received just as much training as a pilot and has the same handle on his fine motor skills.

 

[Nifft]

You end up with the case where "the best starfighter in the galaxy" has the same Pilot skill as "another starfighter in the galaxy who is the same level."

Nah.

1/ Skill Focus.

2/ Racial abilities which give re-rolls.

3/ Feats and Talents that give re-rolls, give access to better Pilot maneuvers & stunts, etc.

4/ BAB

5/ Dexterity

6/ Feats and Talents that modify your attack & damage rolls with starfighter weapons.

There are a LOT of things that can modify your ability to be a starfighter aside from just your Pilot check.

Cheers, -- N

 

[IanArgent]

That's not entirely true. In fact, it isn't true at all. The pilot is as good as a pilot of the same level who has also received just as much training as a pilot and has the same handle on his fine motor skills.

Exactly.

This is an example of one end of the curve where talent matters - the far right-hand of the bell-curve. At the far left hand, where there is no training, talent matters. Between - training matters much more than talent.

For that matter, the best starfighter in the galaxy has several skills at wich he must be excellent, but within the narrow band of "the best" each one might have a slightly better grasp of one specific skill (piloting, gunnery, and initiative, being the big ones).