D&D 5E How do Vampires Exist?

[BoldItalic]

To return to the original question:

It is envisaged that the Vampire in the MM is fighting a party of high-level PCs. After all, that's what monsters are for.

It singles out one as a possible victim and charms her. She becomes willing. Next round he can bite her, causing damage and a reduction in max hp. Her companions try to keep her alive by healing her but they can't counteract the reduction. If he gets enough rounds, he can wear her down to zero. They have to try to kill him, break the charm or otherwise get him away from her before it's too late.

You're right that it's impossible without healing, but it doesn't have to be the vampire who does it. The victim's companions are assumed to be doing it.

I don't understand the problem.

 

[The Human Target]

So vampires can only make vampires out of adventurers whose teammates have healing magic?

No problem there.

 

[BoldItalic]

So vampires can only make vampires out of adventurers whose teammates have healing magic?

No problem there.

That's the only way vampires can make minions out of PCs. The bite action rules in the MM are combat actions and you only use them when the vampires are fighting PCs.

If the DM wants to imagine vampires biting NPCs off-stage he doesn't need rules, he just imagines any sort of outcome he likes. He can arbitrarily invent vampires and minions out of thin air. He's not constrained by the rules while the PCs aren't in the room.

Unless he wants to run a simulation with vampires biting NPCs with no players present, rolling dice and trying to explain the outcome to his own satisfaction. But that's not playing D&D, that's the DM amusing himself.

 

[The Human Target]

I mean I agree with you, but the rules are still wonky.

 

[BoldItalic]

I mean I agree with you, but the rules are still wonky.

Ah, sorry. I read your post the wrong way. Blame the internet

Yes, the rules are wonky but in an interesting way. They don't work as a simulation, as the OP has pointed out, but they are contrived to create drama, which is a theatrical slant. I can imagine Chris Perkins having a blast and ramping up the tension as the players try to stop Strahd before he drains the female lead. If they keep her alive by healing her they are playing into his hands but if they don't, she dies anyway.

I don't think there are many places in the MM where they've done that sort of thing, but I think they were looking ahead when they wrote that vampire entry.

We shall see

 

[The Human Target]

Ah, sorry. I read your post the wrong way. Blame the internet

Yes, the rules are wonky but in an interesting way. They don't work as a simulation, as the OP has pointed out, but they are contrived to create drama, which is a theatrical slant. I can imagine Chris Perkins having a blast and ramping up the tension as the players try to stop Strahd before he drains the female lead. If they keep her alive by healing her they are playing into his hands but if they don't, she dies anyway.

I don't think there are many places in the MM where they've done that sort of thing, but I think they were looking ahead when they wrote that vampire entry.

We shall see

No you read it right, I was making a sassy joke.

 

[The Grassy Gnoll]

My interpretation is, as I posted before, that the initial bite does piercing plus necrotic.

Unless the grapple is broken, the vampire can choose to continue to drain blood - necrotic only. This ensures that the victim cannot (normally) instadie but can be reduced to 0 max HP.

all this in combat:

PC (Ivana Stakiou) Max HP 100.
Vampire bites for 7 piercing damage. Ivana current HP =93. Necrotic damage of 11 reduces max HP to 89. As current is below this, current drops to 89.

Next round, the grapple not having been broken, the vampire doesn't bite again as he is already attached, and continues to drain blood (necrotic). So: current HP remain the same (89) but max HP are reduced by another 11 (78). Again, as current is more than max, current drops to match max (78).

In round three, Ivana again fails to escape the grapple and the sucking continues as above, this time reducing max HP to 67, and current HP to the same.

At this rate, it will take 7 rounds more in combat to completely drain the victim (dropping to max HP by round of 56, 45, 34, 23, 12, 1, -10).

The PC is dead. If they don't do the right rituals the party will have a new vamp to fight in 3 days.

What is the Party doing for all these rounds of bloodsucking? Dealing with the vampire's summoned wargs, bats, vampire spawn, and other servants, of course. That's why they are there. He summons them so he can get biz-zay.

Out of combat, the same thing applies, especially if charmed and therefore willing. You might want to say that a vamp can only attach like a leech for a max of 5 rounds before he is sated. That would allow a further visitation (at night for the in-combat PC) or the next night for the dewy-eyed villager maid, to stretch it out. But having a visitation , whether charmed or not), means that the benefit of a long rest is voided.

And using this system, necrotic damage is always the first damage over the threshold. Commoners may well suffer instadeath with their p*sspoor HPs but that is why the vampire relishes the adventurers...

Eh. Works for me, and keeps a thematic classic feel. For me. YMMV.

 

[Giant2005]

PC (Ivana Stakiou) Max HP 100.
Vampire bites for 7 piercing damage. Ivana current HP =93. Necrotic damage of 11 reduces max HP to 89. As current is below this, current drops to 89.

It doesn't actually work like that though. I'm happy for Vampires to be able to keep sucking without re-biting, but the necrotic damage inflicts regular damage as well as lowering the max hit points.
The current would be reduced to 82 and the maximum reduced to 89. Next round the current would be reduced to 71 and the maximum 78.

Even without re-biting, that initial piercing damage would need to be healed at some point, otherwise the current hit points will always be 7 points lower than the maximum.

 

[The Grassy Gnoll]

Hmm, ok.

However, if current is always 7pts lower than the maximum, then earliest 0 max would be from 4hp/11max (so you'd be on -7/0...no insta death. instadeath only occurs at 2hp current/9 max if dealing 11 necrotic. A delicate balancing act but if it wasn't there'd be vampires all over the shop - in your setup, even if just made by the "don't care" brigade.

 

[Giant2005]

Hmm, ok.

However, if current is always 7pts lower than the maximum, then earliest 0 max would be from 4hp/11max (so you'd be on -7/0...no insta death. instadeath only occurs at 2hp current/9 max if dealing 11 necrotic. A delicate balancing act but if it wasn't there'd be vampires all over the shop - in your setup, even if just made by the "don't care" brigade.

My setup? If you are referring to my homebrew, I erased the "don't care" brigade entirely. The ability to create other vampires isn't something a vampire has by default, they have to get sufficiently powerful as well as actually choose to progress in a way that would give them that ability.