How do you challenge a flying PC?

[KnowTheToe]

I don't think pulling the PCs feathers off would be effective because of magic healing. Otherwise, it would be a great idea for temporarily grounding the PC. You could even have acid or a fireball damage them if you had an angle for getting past the magical healing part.

Edit: Added content

 

[Mark]

Thanks for responding tyo my thread. Allow me to add some more to yours!

I'm quite serious about the molting. Here's a web page to help you set it up so it doesn't come as a surprise to the player (since it does happen at least anually)-

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/companion_birds/74955

There are some interesting scenarios regarding territorial birds/flyers you can use (as mentioned above) and even other half-celestrials (perhaps not aligned the same way) that might see the new spring feathers as an invitation to courtship. If the player complains that you are doing this just because he can fly, tell him that you have to do it just because he has feathers...

 

[Renaissance Man]

Re: Re: How do you challenge a flying PC?

Flying adversaries, spellcasters, ranged weapons and confined spaces.

What, you mean you WOULDN'T be using flying adversaries, spellcasters, ranged weapons and confined spaces anyway?


Hong "what sort of l4m3-a$$ campaign is this?" Ooi

I guess I asked for that.

Allow me to clarify: I'm looking for original ways to challenge this character. Preferably something that doesn't jump out as being tailored specifically for his benefit. Even if it is.

 

[jester47]

flack guns.

 

[Blood Jester]

When's molting season for a half-celestial. It's got to be at least once per year and should take several days for the new feathers to become air-worthy.

And Mark, that's the kind of thing that sets the people who can do this for a living apart from those of us who can't. (And the security guards I guess.)

Brilliant.

 

[Celebrim]

I'm personally of the opinion that flying is in and of itself worth at least +3 ECL, without adding celestial abilities on top of that (which might bring it up to +6 ECL). I say this from experience. I'm a guy that spent a large portion of his adventuring career with the Polymorph Other spell running - and it has limited duration.

BUT, since the PC has tricked you into allowing him to have an undercosted character, you got to do what you got to do.

Basically, you have to consider three things:

1) He won't be travelling on the ground. This means that traps must sense things other than pressure, and must effect volumns not areas. Gas traps and magical traps are your friends. (You would not believe how many problems in Tomb of Horrors are solved by a few potions of flying.)

2) He won't be falling unless you do something to incapacitate him. Pits, ravines, cliffs, bridges, and so forth are generally aids to him not hinderences. These are terrain which he can use to his advantage. While you might not want to have this totally dictate your dungeon design, you should take into account that intelligent creatures in a fantasy world will design their defences to frustrate fliers as well as mundane troops. Unfortunately, this means confined or enclosed spaces. At the very least, keep the ceilings 10' or lower unless the opponent is sufficiently powerful that you don't mind him flying or sufficiently weak that you are throwing it at him to keep him feeling good. If the battle takes place at longbow range, he's almost certainly going to beat most creatures.

3) You have to treat him as any other creature with superior mobility (like a mounted archer). He will dominate any battle in which the opponent cannot reply with either ranged attacks or equal mobility. Unfortunately, this means ranged weapons, spells, and flying creatures. This means that to a certain extent, you must be formulaic. That's the price you pay for allowing a flying PC into the game.

There are a couple of other things you can do other than longbows and lightning bolts though.

a) Make use of gaze attacks. Medusa are particularly nasty to flying creatures (What?!?! CRASH!) so long as you can keep the target into the severe range restriction.

b) Things that can grab can elimenate his mobility advantage before he gets to use it. Improved grab, grapple, whips, nets, etc.

c) You can elimenate some of the advantage of mobility by hiding the enemy well enough that he stumbles upon it. Invisibility is good in this regard, as is displacement and anything with a reasonably good hide skill.

d) Remember that all incorporeal creatures can move vertically as easily as horizontally.

e) Anything that can render itself effectively invunerable at a distance can happily play a waiting game with him. This includes anything that can burrow, meld with stone, swim underwater, is incorporeal, or (depending on his level) simply get 9/10th's cover. If what they are guarding is worth enough to the flier, then he will have to come to them eventually.

f) Sometimes you just can't effect the combat the way you need to from a distance. What if there are innocents to be saved? Other party members in trouble? Then you have to come down to the level of mortals and risk your skin.

For myself, I'd want to challenge him in roleplaying ways as often as I challenge him in combat. Perhaps people don't trust this winged freak, or at the least are envious/afraid of him. Perhaps he stands out to every evil person in town as something to destroy the way that a Fiend walking about would stand out to every heroic person in town. Perhaps he attracts alot of shallow admirers, groupies and hangers on who are really worthless at best and irritants at worst (no matter how sincere they are). Don't forget that people LOVE to see squeeky clean people FAIL completely. Most people don't like heroes, especially moral ones that make them feel inferior whether they mean to or not.

 

[dren]

flying PC

If the PC actually uses the wings to fly, it would be a great strain thus limit him to five minutes a day per constitution point if he's just normally flying from point A to point B. Limit that even more if he's using those wings in battle, perhaps the spread would be five rounds per constitution point. This also limits him to how far he can travel in any given day, which I have a bigger problems with over his benefits during combat.

Force him to take additional feats, skill points in order to effectively use those wings in combat maneuvers. Fly-by-attack, airbourne combat, etc...

Have an enemy cast curse on him: sorry, wings are now useless ... and, don't forget have a happy landing!

Constantly have small avians dive attack him from the back. Won't do great damage, but it will bother him like crazy, and force him to make concentration checks. (Great for spellcasters.) If he asks why: the bird-god drove them to it to punish the interloper.

My players learned long ago, better to play a mistructed tiefling than a beloved celestial. Holy ones are constantly bothered by NPC's asking you for favors, handouts, blessing, holy relics, quests, heals, ad naseum. And if you play a neutral or evil celestial, every level past fifth there is at least one chaotic good celestial who has heard about your exploits and wants to bring you back to the Olympia to teach you a lesson...and because they are chaotic, they will be watching you, and will wait until you are weakened, tired, out of spells, sleeping, in jail, etc...to come for you.

Or the most sickest, cruelest, sadistic thing any DM can do: reason with the player! Admit to the player that YOU as a DM made a mistake. (Yes, even using Rule Zero, DM's do that!)
Ask him that in fairness to the other players, that he create a new character, and you will work with him to create another cool, but fair character. I haven't had a player yet say no to me when I do that. ..players want to have fun and be cool and not just create more problems. While they might groan about it, most are willing to oblige.

Hope this helps.

Dren

 

[reiella]

A net.

 

[Hammerhead]

Flight isn't that big of a deal. At some point, normal PCs are going to start flying around anyway, he just gets to start a little earlier.

In general, I find that the mid- higher level CRs assume flight, or other fun spell use. Lots of creatures have the usual ways to deal with it like flight, ranged attacks, or spells. Those that don't tend to have CRs that take it into account. Many of the brute type monsters are fully capable of dismantling a fighter (level = creature CR) in a round or two. Look at the big earth elementals: lots of attacks, HP, DR, and elemental immunities. They're very dangerous in melee. However, they're stupid, can't fly, and, IIRC, have poor will saves. Therefore, they only have a moderate CR despite their melee advantage, because a clever group can negate that advantage.

Of course, that one dragon with level adjustments for lots of races moved 1/2 celestials to a +5 Level Adjustment, IIRC. If he seems too good, his "extra" 2 levels might be the reason.

 

[ForceUser@Home]

Beholders. Anti-magic fields. Dispel magic. Blindness. Deeper darkness. Hold person/monster. Obscuring mist. Giants throwing boulders. Deepwood snipers with composite longbows.

etc etc