How do you convince someone of the truth
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Lhorgrim
Explorer
I don't have the answer to this one, but I'm curious to see what it is.
I had a situation in which another PC refused to believe My PC was telling the truth, and the player then immediately rolled a sense motive check. I asked what the modifier bonus was for telling the truth, and the DM stepped in and adjudicated.
Ever since then, I've wondered what the modifier for telling the truth vs a sense motive check is.
I had a situation in which another PC refused to believe My PC was telling the truth, and the player then immediately rolled a sense motive check. I asked what the modifier bonus was for telling the truth, and the DM stepped in and adjudicated.
Ever since then, I've wondered what the modifier for telling the truth vs a sense motive check is.
Lord Pendragon
First Post
Here's how I'd probably do it:
If the opponent isn't an enemy, I'd go with a Diplomacy check, opposed by a DC I would determined based on the target's degree of disbelief. i.e. if I'm trying to convince the guy that his house is on fire, the DC will be low, because he'll be afraid you're telling the truth. If, on the other hand, you're trying to convince him there will be an eclipse tonight, and he's never seen nor heard of such a thing, the DC might be 30.
If the opponent is an enemy, I'd go with Bluff/Sense Motive. The fact that you're actually telling the truth is irrelevent. You're trying to convince an enemy of something he doesn't believe.
If the opponent isn't an enemy, I'd go with a Diplomacy check, opposed by a DC I would determined based on the target's degree of disbelief. i.e. if I'm trying to convince the guy that his house is on fire, the DC will be low, because he'll be afraid you're telling the truth. If, on the other hand, you're trying to convince him there will be an eclipse tonight, and he's never seen nor heard of such a thing, the DC might be 30.
If the opponent is an enemy, I'd go with Bluff/Sense Motive. The fact that you're actually telling the truth is irrelevent. You're trying to convince an enemy of something he doesn't believe.
Lord Pendragon
First Post
Hrm, you make a very good point. I'd probably just go with the straight Diplomacy vs. assigned DC then. The more outrageous the truth, higher the DC.glass said:
Personally I'd probably leave Sense Motive out of it. Just a single Diplomacy check vs. assigned DC seems to model the situation well enough for me. But if I really wanted to include it, I'd give the target a Sense Motive check, DC 10, and if the target succeeded I'd give the Diplomat a +2 circumstance bonus on his Diplomacy check. Basically, the fact that the target is a fair judge of character is aiding (as in Aid Another) the Diplomat's efforts to convince him.
Regarding untruths, you have it exactly right. Bluff/Sense Motive.
billd91
Not your screen monkey (he/him) 🇺🇦🇵🇸🏳️⚧️
For one thing, the interpersonal skills aren't meant to be used on fellow PCs to determine courses of action. The player has the free will to believe or not believe.
That doesn't mean that they can't be useful for feeding information to the other player so he can make a suitable judgement in how to the run their PC. In this case, I think a sense motive is called for since it will help the PC make a judgement about how sincere the truth-telling PC is. In this case, I'd determine the target DC based on the talking PC. If the other PCs know that he's frequently a liar or a really smooth face-man, I'd set the DC higher to get a real gauge of the situation. My assumption here is that, as an accomplished liar, he ALWAYS seems generally sincere in what he says unless he clearly declares that he's emoting in a sarcastic way.
I'd be tempted to either set it at 10 + 2 for each feat the PC has that adds to his Bluff score or have the speaking PC effectively "Take 0" with his Bluff skill since he is trying to actually be sincere but has his own successful reputation to overcome (perhaps without adding the Cha modifier too since that is being actively used to convince the other PC of true sincerity and not to lie).
I don't really think diplomacy is the way to go here. That's handled by role-playing between PCs. It's up to the player to determine if the speaking PC's presentation is intellectually persuasive for his own PC and not a test of dice.
That doesn't mean that they can't be useful for feeding information to the other player so he can make a suitable judgement in how to the run their PC. In this case, I think a sense motive is called for since it will help the PC make a judgement about how sincere the truth-telling PC is. In this case, I'd determine the target DC based on the talking PC. If the other PCs know that he's frequently a liar or a really smooth face-man, I'd set the DC higher to get a real gauge of the situation. My assumption here is that, as an accomplished liar, he ALWAYS seems generally sincere in what he says unless he clearly declares that he's emoting in a sarcastic way.
I'd be tempted to either set it at 10 + 2 for each feat the PC has that adds to his Bluff score or have the speaking PC effectively "Take 0" with his Bluff skill since he is trying to actually be sincere but has his own successful reputation to overcome (perhaps without adding the Cha modifier too since that is being actively used to convince the other PC of true sincerity and not to lie).
I don't really think diplomacy is the way to go here. That's handled by role-playing between PCs. It's up to the player to determine if the speaking PC's presentation is intellectually persuasive for his own PC and not a test of dice.
Terraism
Explorer
There was a neat thread on this a while back... 'scuse me while I find it.
[Edit] And, here it is. http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22676 We've been using a slight variation of those rules ever since I first stumbled across that thread.
[Edit] And, here it is. http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22676 We've been using a slight variation of those rules ever since I first stumbled across that thread.
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