How do you deal with Hardness 20? (Spoilers for The Infernal Syndrome)

[MerricB]

I'm casting Restoration and Lesser Restoration to cure them up just like the cleric would...

Lesser Restoration doesn't work on ability drain.

A paladin needs to be Level 13 to cast Restoration.

 

[EUBanana]

Given he mentions four mercies he's probably level 12-15...

 

[N'raac]

I'm casting Restoration and Lesser Restoration to cure them up just like the cleric would...

While certainly true that the Paladin has access to these spells, the earliest he will access Lesser Restoration is L4 (L3 for the cleric so no biggie) and he'll be L13 before he sees Restoration (versus Cleric L7). He's also gaining the spell slots at a lower pace.

Of course, you can always buy wands. 21,000 gp for Restoration doesn't compare well to 750 for CLW, but you also have the other Paladin advantages. Having a Paladin rather than a Cleric means you spend more to have Restoration access, but the paladin adds melee power, especially against evil creatures (like, say, level draining undead).

To the bigger question, I think D&D, and Pathfinder by extension, are games of teamwork, and there is an expectation of an array of abilities. I think doing without a cleric is probably more viable in Pathfinder, and certainly no less.

If you're missing some core abilities, it will certainly change things. However, I don't see writing AP's on the expectation there will be no arcane casters, or no warrior types, will create issues for far more groups than assuming those bases will be covered in some manner. I don't think I've ever used a module without reading through it and assessing which challenges are rendered underpowered due to group composition, and which might need some modification to avoid being overpowered.

In this specific example, I think a pretty wide array of viable options have been suggested. I also think the ability of the party to back out and plan greatly enhances their power - you aren't stuck with what the casters selected for today, nor the weaponry the warriors typically use, so you can come back tomorrow - and the next day, if need be - with a group better customized to address this specific threat.

Any martial character can pick up a Great Sword, have their damage capacity augmented with buff spells we typically ignore because melee damage isn't the team's typical forte, be aided by other team members whose usual combat role is different, etc. Not every challenge is, or should be, a perfect fit with the party's areas of greatest focus.

 

[MerricB]

Given he mentions four mercies he's probably level 12-15...

He has then completely missed the problem. It's really nice being a level 14 paladin - unfortunately, by then the Adventure Path is over. (Council of Thieves tops out at 13th level).

 

[Salthorae]

He has then completely missed the problem. It's really nice being a level 14 paladin - unfortunately, by then the Adventure Path is over. (Council of Thieves tops out at 13th level).

Yes 12th level Paladin with the Extra Mercy feat. Second Darkness tops out at 15th which, as I mentioned, is the AP where that character was run.

I don't feel like I missed the problem, but you are entitled to you opinion. I posted and commented on your initial issue of Hardness 20 for level 8 characters.

You then made more general post about 3.x & Pathfinder roles and which classes should go into them. I replied to that particular post about Paladin's being valid choices for the healer AND melee role, especially given some of the Archtype options in APG, (which I do realize you've said isn't allowed in this particular game you're running) based on my experience in the last Pathfinder game.

Because your campaign theme is more Celtic and there are Druids, but no Clerics you've said that presents a problem with energy and ability damage/drain for the party. Regardless of what level a Paladin acquires Restoration, he still gets it and the Druid doesn't. Which to me makes him a better option against the energy/ability drain than a Druid, and really the only option for that kind of healing in your game it would seem, based on the information you've given us.

Sorry for trying to chime in and have a helpful discussion to broaden your Party Roles!

 

[billd91]

(A Celtic-themed setting, with druids instead of clerics, is absolutely destroyed by undead: energy drain and ability drain...)

Why would you limit divine characters to just druids in a Celtic-themed game? The Celts were an iron-forging people. Smith priests would be a fantastic addition, and appropriately flavorful.

And even if you did limit to druids, why wouldn't you simply add Restoration to their spell lists? And if you didn't do that, why would you still use level and stat draining undead?

As GM, you aren't forced to screw the PCs. If you're limiting choices the PCs have for a theme, you sould limit your own as well or compensate for them.