How do you deal with instant death?

[Amal Shukup]

This thread got me to thinking...

A brooch of Death Ward ought to cost something like 112000 gp or so (continuous, use activated. It's only a minute/Level spell...). That's a lot, but there are options:

- Not being continuous cuts the price in half
- Charged (only works 50 times before burning out = 1/2 cost)
- Charges per day (1/day = 1/5 the cost)

So an amulet that works once per day, for a total of 50 times before burning out would only cost 5600 gp or so. Not bad... Takes the edge off anyway.

A single use, use activated Death Ward (I'm picturing a crystal brooch or amulet that shatters when it deflects a Death Attack) theoretically only costs 1400 gp or so. Get 'em for the whole party...

A'Mal

 

[Wolfspirit]

I'm kind of against save or die spells and abilities unless it's actually something important to the plot. But then again I'm kind of bitter after getting offed by a bodak when I rolled a 2 versus Charisma Based Fortitude or DIE in a world where there (per the DM) are so few undead that they are thought to not exist.

 

[Leaones]

As far as I see it there is only a 4 level gap on the "power" of instant kill spells, and they arnt really that scarry.

All of the things I have seen have had magic items as a stapel of the caster getting a good spell DC, but give the fighter some magic items also, cloak of resistance, amulet of health, come on be inventive. thats the goal of DND anyways. and at epic lvs those instant kills are the only have a 1 in 20 chance of being useful anyways, but the fighter will always kick in mellee. And based on your classes (prestige) you can kill them before they get the chance also

If you wan't the chance to kill it instantly, go with a those spells, but the 'chance' to kill is just that, a chance, I prefer to make sure that there is damage being done by my characters. I just have human shields to keep me safe (fighters heh)

And if you want to make your fighter survive more than that, just get :::Mettle:::, and tell the casters to give you money for the pleasure to live.

In the end, magic items cancel magic spells, and class abilities. and if you think spells are bad in 3.5 dnd, try playing 2nd edition dnd.

 

[ivocaliban]

Hmm... at 13th level I'd say an amulet of health +4 and a cloak of resistance +4 would be fairly reasonable for a fighter.

Wow...my game has Windtreaders (airships) in it and there's less magic than that floating around. Assuming the other items the character possesses are roughly on the same level as these two, the PC is likely to have more wealth than suggested for a 13th level character in the DMG. A primary +4 weapon and +4 armor is going to run 48,000gp, while the two items above come to 32,000gp. That leaves 30,000gp for all other items combined (including a secondary weapon) and close to a dozen empty body slots. It just seems a little too specialized for my liking.

 

[KnowTheToe]

I am! Ok, not really, but I do tend to avoid save or die type situations. I don't find that fun, either as a player or a DM. I like to see a challenge, then figure out how to deal with it (whether I succeed or not is another matter entirely, but at least I had the chance), rather than hear "you died, nothing you can do about it, suck it up", especially if it's just based on random chance (like a saving throw). But that's just me.

And me. From time to time it is OK, but as a player, my least favorite way to die is insta kills. Knock my hit points away, let me slip off of a cliff, chop my head off for committing some hanious crime, but disintegrate just sucks. On the other hand if a PC wizard leans the spell and is casting it all over the place, then his foes are more likely to use it as well.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Wow...my game has Windtreaders (airships) in it and there's less magic than that floating around. Assuming the other items the character possesses are roughly on the same level as these two, the PC is likely to have more wealth than suggested for a 13th level character in the DMG. A primary +4 weapon and +4 armor is going to run 48,000gp, while the two items above come to 32,000gp. That leaves 30,000gp for all other items combined (including a secondary weapon) and close to a dozen empty body slots. It just seems a little too specialized for my liking.

The 2nd most expensive item owned by my 11th level Wizard is a Amulet of Health +4. Con is pretty important. After all, the only thing separating you from certain death in most combats is your HPs.

As for the Cloak of Resistance, not getting the best one you can conceivably afford is a calculated risk on the part of the PC. Once you hit 13th level and beyond, the BBEG's minions can be raining Hold Persons, Fears, Confusions, Dominate Persons on the Fighter. A lot of magic floats around those lofty levels.

You will need to survive steady hammering of DC 14 to DC 19 effects from the disposable mooks. A +13 save in your strong suit is really begging for disaster.

 

[ivocaliban]

The 2nd most expensive item owned by my 11th level Wizard is a Amulet of Health +4. Con is pretty important. After all, the only thing separating you from certain death in most combats is your HPs.

As for the Cloak of Resistance, not getting the best one you can conceivably afford is a calculated risk on the part of the PC. Once you hit 13th level and beyond, the BBEG's minions can be raining Hold Persons, Fears, Confusions, Dominate Persons on the Fighter. A lot of magic floats around those lofty levels.

You will need to survive steady hammering of DC 14 to DC 19 effects from the disposable mooks. A +13 save in your strong suit is really begging for disaster.

Well, there's a great deal of points I could make here, but I'll just make one before this entirely hijacks the thread: I suppose it's simply a question of how prevalent magic items are in your campaign. Mine is apparently more Low Magic than I previously believed. Which is fine by me.

 

[Voadam]

As far as I see it there is only a 4 level gap on the "power" of instant kill spells, and they arnt really that scarry.

All of the things I have seen have had magic items as a stapel of the caster getting a good spell DC, but give the fighter some magic items also, cloak of resistance, amulet of health, come on be inventive. thats the goal of DND anyways. and at epic lvs those instant kills are the only have a 1 in 20 chance of being useful anyways, but the fighter will always kick in mellee. And based on your classes (prestige) you can kill them before they get the chance also

Yeah, but the option of having eight foes with DC 14 save or die effects (bodaks) against four 15th level PCs where 3 of them have +13 or more fort saves is a pretty boring and high risk fight based on rolling ones. There is no differentiation between the +13 and +20 saves, the weak fort PC is grossly more vulnerable, and the only effects against the PCs are nothing or death due to rolling a 1.

How well do you not roll ones on multiple dice rolls is not a fun encounter IMO.

Now with a different monster of the same CR it was a fun and challenging fight where players were affected by things but the consequences were not death or nothing based on straight saving throws.

 

[DragonLancer]

I use them when I'm DMing. I don't change them or the rules in anyway. Though I do tend to use them sparingly.

I don't give warning, and nor should I. The PC's will have to learn this themselves.