How do you deal with rules laywers??!!

[Morbidity]

I'm actually really lucky on this front. On the rare occasion I DM, my friend Tallarn (from these boards) is a fantastic help with the rules. He's been playing RPGs (mostly D&D) for twelve or thirteen years, and I've been playing about eighteen months, so needless to say he knows the rules better than me. Or rather he has the kind of mindset that holds onto them.

So when I DM, Tallarn tells me the rules. He's scrupulously honest about it, and always argues what he thinks is the right interpretation, whether that goes for or against the PCs. He thinks he annoys other DMs -- but not me! I love it.

That's my contribution. I have DMed a rules lawyer and it was horrible. Tallarn isn't a rules lawyer: he's a rules consultant. That's a significant difference.

So true. I am also a new player (18 months or so) and a very new DM (3 months or so) with only a mediocre knowledge of the rules. Fortunately I have 2 players (Malin Genie and Atticus) with really good rules knowledge in my group. They are a great resource, Malin Genie in particular as he advises and then goes with whatever I decide even if it's against an official ruling. I demand that the rules administered in my game be logical, not just official.

 

[Delgar]

Quoted from the Book of Henry:

"Shoot one player an hour until they accept your authority!"

Delgar

 

[Caliban]

I statrted running for a group and have come to find out they are all rules lawyers. I'm a pretty new DM and I'm trying to run by the rules the best I can. I knew it was bad when one of the players argued a rule after I had read it word for word out of the PHB. I was just looking for some advice.

Thanks
Beldar

Are they Rules Lawyers (someone who knows the system well and takes advantage of it while remaining within the rules) or Munchkins (someone who wants to change the rules to their character's advantage)?

An actual Rules Lawyer you can usually deal with by talking things over with them before or after the game, to make sure that you share the same understanding of important rules. Don't be afraid to stick to your guns if you disagree with them on how a rule should be judged, it's your game. Most of the time, they are more concerned about playing the game "correctly" than in making sure their character is the most powerful.

If he's a Munchkin, just kill his character (using the same gimmick/rule change/technique, etc. he was arguing for) whenever he get's out of line. He'll learn to keep his mouth shut soon enough.

 

[Mark]

That all depends. If they are good rules lawyers, then they know the rules better than you do. I would consider them a resource, not a problem.

Rules lawyering can be annoying at times, but so is a game where the DM doesn't have a thorough knowledge of the rules.

All relative. Some groups prefer fewer rules while others like the letter of the law. (Most groups are in between.) Someone who prefers the latter seldom fits in well with a group that is majorly the former. Someone from the former group can find a group geared toward heavy rules debate stifling creatively. In the end it comes down to how the DM wishes to run their game and making sure the players are marginally close to that ideal. If someone stands out as not satisfied, no matter to which end of the spectrum, they need to adapt to the DM or find another game. If they are unwillingly to adapt or find another game, they need to be encouraged to one end or the other. In the end, it is the DM's game and, while they may become more familiar with the rules over time, it is unlikely they will prefer a different game than the one they already run.

 

[Necrogorgon]

It depends on whether or not it is a major problem. Anything that disrupts the game has to be dealt with. I have only had one rules lawyer and once I explained to him that I was getting annoyed PERSONALLY with him, he quit. If that cause them to quit, I think you have to re-evaluate whether or not they belong at the table.