how do you Gestart creatures with racial HD and/or level adjustment

[Taneel BrightBlade]

I'm running a gestalt game currently and was planning to make a gnoll Barbarian/bard but I wasn't sure how to deal with the level adjustment and racial hit dice and couldn't find mention of it in gestalt rules. Has anyone else found a way of dealing with this? If so, how?

 

[Nifft]

Racial HD count as one side of the gestalt. This is just common sense.

Level Adjustment counts against both sides. (This is very important. Otherwise, templates and racial features will severely mess up your game.)

As usual, it's best to avoid LA.

-- N

 

[Drowbane]

My group does it as both HD and LA apply to one side of your Gestalt. Its fine as long as the DM is wise with what Templates and Races he allows... as with any other D&D character.

Tiefling Fighter 1 | Rogue 2 (or Fi 19 | Rog 20): not going to break your game... (or, if it does... your game is weak anyways! )

Elf Shade Vampire Half-dragon Rogue 5 | Sorcerer 20: Eh, it might. Might not. YMMV.

Our current Gestalt party:
Raele: Lycanthropic Ranger something, not sure of his exact build, the player is rather secretive, and I'm not DM.

Anixiel (Nixie): Faen Lorespryte 1/2 Black Dragon Rogue 2 (?) | Telepath 5. Our own tiny pseudo dragon. Schticks: Flies around and spits acid... or fire... or electricity or soundwaves... (most of his psi-powers are described as breath weapon. Energy Missile, Energy Retort, Mind Thrust, etc). Will once in awhile catch the opponent with a blast of fire in the face (Energy Ray + Sneak attack).

Onslaught, aka Legion (mine): Warforged Barbarian 1 / Fighter 4 | Psion-shaper 5. Is one tough nut to crack, but has been in the negatives at least 3 times. Primary schticks: being tough (Vigor, Sharepain, etc), and summoning "ghostly" (coughectoplasmiccough) members of his lost legion... aka Astral Construct. Note the lack of a template, no HD or LA, still manages to be as powerful as the guys with LA and/or racial HD mixed into thier builds.

 

[genshou]

Level Adjustment counts against both sides. (This is very important. Otherwise, templates and racial features will severely mess up your game.)

Sorry, but could you explain exactly how this works in a gestalt game? I've done it the other way without any problems at all. LA tends to be weaker than class levels in most cases anyway, especially at higher levels.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Sorry, but could you explain exactly how this works in a gestalt game? I've done it the other way without any problems at all. LA tends to be weaker than class levels in most cases anyway, especially at higher levels.

It's difficult because Level Adjustment is basically a no HD, no BAB, no saves, no feats, etc level.

For this example, just assume the Vampire is balanced as +8 LA (substitute another template if you want).

A non-gestalt Fighter 1 Vampire (ECL 9) templated character has 1 HD, and thus is missing out on things normally associated with hit dice, missing three feats, two ability score increases, several points of BAB and saves, and so on and so forth. The exchange is generally what what you're getting in return is much better than class features normally given. That's part of the balancing factor of the LA.

If you allow LA to be one side of a gestalt, then you don't have these balancing factors anymore. You can get, say, all the benefits of the Vampire template with BAB, saves, etc. That's how it can be unbalancing.

EDIT: Compare to a normal class/class gestalt where you pick the best of similar abilities. +1 BAB instead of +0. +1 Will instead of +0. Sneak Attack +1d6 and an increase in Favored Enemy. With LA/class you're getting two dissimilar abilities instead of picking between similar options.

 

[Thanee]

Sorry, but could you explain exactly how this works in a gestalt game? I've done it the other way without any problems at all. LA tends to be weaker than class levels in most cases anyway, especially at higher levels.

If you have a 10th-level Gestalt character.

Compare a 10th-level Wizard/Fighter with a 10th-level Fighter/Level Adjustment 10.

One is a combination of two unrelated classes with both sides overlapping.
The other is a 20th-level non-Gestalt character with both sides stacking.

That's why.

Bye
Thanee