How do you handle campaign cheaters?

[Captain Howdy]

I would never kick a friend out of my game for something like that. You would possibly ruin a friendship over a GAME. If he wants to look up all the spoilers and ruin the dungeon for himself, fine. I say let him do it. Unless the rest of your group is too inexpierenced to keep in game and out of game knowledge seperate, then it shouldn't really change much. Maybe modify some rooms or add some traps, but kicking him out entirely?
My players don't read specific adventures that I run (when I use published ones), but they do read source matierial and campaign books. They are generally able to keep things seperate.
Maybe I'm wrong, but think of it this way, pretty much all D&D players know that trolls are weak against fire and acid, but I have never once had a player use that knowledge in game when it wasn't appropriate (i.e. lvl 1 or inexpierenced characters). Or the fact that I have probably run Tomb of Horrors about six times, and the players never use out of game knowledge to bypass traps and such. Maybe I just DM some great players, but I don't know.
I know that can't compare to looking at a whole dungeon, but I really don't think that his so-called "cheating" is going to detract from the game at all.
What I would do, don't let him know that everyone knows what he is doing. Run a few sessions, if he is ruining the game for everyone, then talk to him about it and tell him that meta-gaming is bad, and all that hoo ha. If he still does it, then maybe kick him out.
All I know is, I have only kicked a player out once in my life, and that is because he stole my wallet... If you are willing to risk losing a friend over a game, then maybe you ought to look at yourself a little more as a person/D&D player.

Sorry if I am off-base or harsh, but the general feel of this thread really got to me.

 

[Ulrick]

Boot him out...even if he is a friend.

It might cause friction, but gosh darn it, this hobby is supposed to be fun.

I had a friend who I knew cheated in the game that I ran. It really got on everybody's nerves because I wouldn't kick him out of the group.

Just do it. Get the 2 weeks to a month of the resulting melodrama over with.

 

[AFGNCAAP]

I don't think that the player (or players, for that matter) should get off scott free, but I don't think you need to go to great extremes; although, I should say it depends on who you play with.

One player in my group (who currently isn't attending due to RL stuff) is well known for his questionable dice-rolling methods (and, his gaming behavior is so well-known that his name has pretty much become a term for a certain style of gaming behavior).

Another (current) member will read up stuff in the campaign book. This in itself isn't a bad thing, but it does become problematic when said player will try to identify opponents in a battle by their description (for example, noting that the race, armor, & weapons used by our foes are typical of the standard NPC thugs/henchmen/troops of a particular evil organization). Also, this player tends to read the flavor text for game info/clues/facts (often saying this = X). Said player hasn't had a copy of the MM available during games; however, I suspect that said player would also look up monster stats during the game as well.

Granted, our group has players are familiar with the game, so there's some degree of awareness of what certain creatures can/can't do, but we're still not on par regarding some of the new/unique creations of newer settings & game modules. So far, there hasn't been any incidents like the WLD one, but part of me is just waiting for that to happen w/ one of the players.

 

[shilsen]

Almost forgot- a lot of what he learned was from here on ENWorld. Reading the threads about the WLD, I guess there are more spoilers on EN then I realized. So remember that while you’re talking about campaigns others are trying to run them, and Players are reading them.

That happens, but from your earlier posts it seemed like your player was looking for info. I was in a RttToEE campaign and would intermittently see info about it on ENWorld without intending to, simply because people would drop it into non-RttToEE threads without warning. I told my DM about it and told him that none of the info would affect my character actions in-game and I wouldn't communicate it to any of the other players. I separated player and PC knowledge (which I do all the time anyway) and had a good time and the DM had no problems. Even if a player inadvertently gets info about your campaign, it doesn't affect the game - unless he chooses to let it.

 

[Silver Moon]

At least two of my six players own it and/or have read it, one or two others have started it but never played the whole thing. Does it bother me? No, for two reasons. First, I've got a great group, who keep out of game knowledge out of game -- so no impact. Second, I've changed, tweaked, added, and subtracted enough that they can't really count on anything printed other than the general outline. Sure, I use things as printed -- they just don't know which things.

BINGO! Been there, done that. Back in the early 80's there weren't that many modules out there. I was in two different gaming groups and two of my friends were also in both. It was common for one group to run a TSR module that the other group had done, but those of us who it was a repeat of would keep the knowledge OOG and the DM would also change enough to keep it interesting for all.

I do understand the "trust" point though. I remember how disappointed I was once during a game when a player had his character made a statement with knowledge he wouldn't have known about an artifact if he hadn't looking it up in the DMG. It spoiled a key part of the module for me.

 

[coyote6]

You could always expand the dungeon; there's gotta be someplace to either tack on a little more, or replace a little with something else.

So, drop in a few levels of (Return to) the Temple of Elemental Evil, Rappan Athuk, Maure Castle, (Return to) Tomb of Horrors (that's if you're really annoyed), or some other insanely dangerous dungeon.

 

[Thotas]

Welll, I dunno about necessarily kickin' the guy out -- as some have pointed out, it's likely it's a friend in RL, and some areas are gamer-short. On the other hand, if it's ruining everyone's fun, it's ruining everyone's fun. If it were me, I'd very pointedly make it clear that the WLD is also the W$D and that, in context of this group, it is now valueless. Set the WLD aside for a day when the group has new members, and those who remain have largely forgotten what's in it. Start over, new adventure, new characters. And make it quite clear that if it happens again, the next campaign will be new adventure, new characters, new DM.

 

[Gorilla726]

Well, I would like to say I'm sorry that you have to go through this whole thing and I wish you luck.

I would: Talk with him about it, and dock him a level or two character-wise to make up for the EXP he would be getting from the upcoming sessions. If he kept it up, I would probably kick him out after warning him the first time and the level docking.

Best of luck to you!

Gorilla

 

[DragonLancer]

I have heard the chorus of 'kick the dude out' and I gotta ask, who the heck do you people play with?

I play with 5 of my friends. I have two others who don’t play D&D but will play pretty much anything else. I don’t play with complete strangers.

I would never kick a friend out of my game for something like that. You would possibly ruin a friendship over a GAME. If he wants to look up all the spoilers and ruin the dungeon for himself, fine. I say let him do it. Unless the rest of your group is too inexpierenced to keep in game and out of game knowledge seperate, then it shouldn't really change much. Maybe modify some rooms or add some traps, but kicking him out entirely?

You are correct, it is a game. But its not just a computer game or Monopoly. It’s a Role-Playing Game where the cheating impacts on more than him. It ruins the game when a player cheats. It hurts the mood and causes bad feeling. And why should the DM have to change anything? The player should have known better than to cheat. He knew what he was doing, and it was intentional. Its not like he already had the module and had run it or read it prior to it coming up in the campaign.

All I know is, I have only kicked a player out once in my life, and that is because he stole my wallet... If you are willing to risk losing a friend over a game, then maybe you ought to look at yourself a little more as a person/D&D player.

Thankfully I’ve only had to boot one player. He used to roll dice, and cover them up/pick them up before anyone could see what he rolled. He did this pretty much every game session, until it got too much and the rest of the group decided that they didn’t want to game with him anymore.

 

[Thanee]

Doh! That sounds like he's playing D&D like a computer game with a walkthrough. How pathetic is that!?

Anyways, I'd tell him (guess you did so already) that this is not how the game is supposed to be played, and that it is part of the fun to not know beforehand, what will happen.

Maybe, if you make the analogy clear to him by pointing out (telling him, not actually doing), that you could just add an opponent in there, who is basically immune to everything he does and can kill him within a round, unless he rolls a natural 20 on a saving throw. This would be kinda similar and also equally pointless. Noone will win.

But since you said, there have been problems with this player already in the past, I'd seriously consider booting him as well. As sad as this is, sometimes drastic steps are necessary.

Bye
Thanee