How do you handle this situation?

[Tymophil]

The dungeon was created to test adventurers. There's an annual event lasting a week at which adventurers from all over the world congregate to be let into the dungeon.

When the week is over, the dungeon is sealed and the surviving adventurers get trophies based on the amount of loot they managed to take with them from the dungeon.

Then the dungeon's creator starts preparing the dungeon for next year's contest.

What is the point of such test ?

Why one would test low level adventurers with a dungeon which is so expensive to set up ?

 

[MarkB]

I'm not really gonna keep going from there, because I think the trick's been figured out. Any advice on how to make it better? More fiendish?

Have the set-up in the central room be clearly the site of what was an on-going battle between two sets of antagonistic adventurers. Their weapons are drawn, there are scorch marks on the floor, some of them bear wounds that have clotted over. It's pretty obvious that once you interrupt the effect, these folks are going to wake up angry, and there's no obvious clue as to which 'side' to be on, if any.

Alternatively, give the gem a limited telekinetic effect that mindlessly seeks to add new victims. If anyone stands too near a rope for too long, it will slither and curl towards them, attempting to make contact.

 

[Fifth Element]

#1 is easy enough. But the DM won't let you do #2. He's worked his butt off on this dungeon, and you're stuck here, like it or not.

This is incongruous. If it were really old-school D&D, it would be a sandbox game. All old-school games are sandboxes, everyone knows that.

 

[Lidgar]

I'm not really gonna keep going from there, because I think the trick's been figured out. Any advice on how to make it better? More fiendish?

1. If the gem is dislodged and hits the floor, have it explode as a 5d6 fireball (nasty enough for 3rd level PC's). PC's outside the room are safe.

2. Have the room the gem is in covered in 4" of water. Just enough to drown in if collapsed on the floor.

3. The old favorite, once awakened from the "spell", your alignment is reversed.

 

[Lanefan]

Have the set-up in the central room be clearly the site of what was an on-going battle between two sets of antagonistic adventurers. Their weapons are drawn, there are scorch marks on the floor, some of them bear wounds that have clotted over. It's pretty obvious that once you interrupt the effect, these folks are going to wake up angry, and there's no obvious clue as to which 'side' to be on, if any.

Now this is brilliant! I might have to use this one sometime.

And it could easily become a 3-way battle when the party joins in; those are loads of fun to DM though can quickly get well beyond confusing...

Lanefan

 

[TarionzCousin]

3. The old favorite, once awakened from the "spell", your alignment is reversed.

Obviously my rep comment should only make sense to your avatar's namesake.

 

[Heathen72]

What is the point of such test ?

Why one would test low level adventurers with a dungeon which is so expensive to set up ?

I am going to give you 6 reasons off the top of my head. I don't believe knowing the point helps you solve the riddle, mind, but you asked twice, so I am guessing that it is important to you.

If my 'points' fail to satisfy you, you may have come up with your own.

1. Ever heard of the colosseum? It's about entertaining the masses!
   
2. it's a test to find the best of the best, a la Deathtrap Dungeon or even The Last Starfighter!
   
3. it was created by Mad Sorceror King Loony MacLoony who loved to put adventurers in his crazy magical maze and watch them try to escape. He particularly liked it when adventurers were brought down by their own greed.
   
4. it not so expensive after all. It's mass produced as the magical equivalent of flypaper, and used to capture burglars. Normally it comes with Phase Spiders who eat the frozen people.
   
5. the conundrum is actually to see how capable the players are at suspending their disbelief. If they succeed as doing so, they 'win' and are rewarded with lots of fun. If they fail, they 'lose' and are forced to go back to their dreary lives in reality-land where everything makes sense.
   
6. it's a test for GM's. If you like the idea and want to use it in your game, the challenge is for you to come up with your own "point" that will satisfy you and your players. If you do so you win! if you don't like the idea, you can just ignore it, and you still win! Just be careful that you don't get caught staring at the puzzle like it's a Hypnotist's Spiral, trying to find a central point that isn't actually there. It's harder to win that way.

 

[Lady89]

Use the 10 foot pole you are carrying (ODD right?) and shove it such that it will dislodge the rope, preferably starting with freeing the first set of adventurers found...

Some one once ask our GM why a “10ft” pole? His answer, because “usually” in the amount of time it takes the magical acidic slime “you” just poked to move 10ft you will have had time to drop the pole and run for your life. You just don’t get that sort of security of mind with a 5ft pole.

 

[Tymophil]

I am going to give you 6 reasons off the top of my head. I don't believe knowing the point helps you solve the riddle, mind, but you asked twice, so I am guessing that it is important to you.

It's certainly important for my character. In trying to figure out how to solve a problem, knowing why the trap is set is clearly important. If there is no reason for the trap to be there, then there is no reason for a character to risk his life.

If my 'points' fail to satisfy you, you may have come up with your own.

1. Ever heard of the colosseum? It's about entertaining the masses!

Where are the masses ? There is oubviously no public, except the adventurers. But even if there was a public, the Colosseum was a very expensive place to run, it took the might of Rome to pay for it. Plus, the gladiators had no choice but to fight and die for the entertainement, do you suggest that the PCs involved would be trapped in the dungeon just like gladiators "trapped" in the arena ?

1. it's a test to find the best of the best, a la Deathtrap Dungeon or even The Last Starfighter!

What is the point of testing low level characters then ? If there is such a best of the best test, it should attract, and test, the... Best of the Best ! Not the low of the beginners...

1. it was created by Mad Sorceror King Loony MacLoony who loved to put adventurers in his crazy magical maze and watch them try to escape. He particularly liked it when adventurers were brought down by their own greed.

This could make sense, but gets old... Doesn't it ?

1. it not so expensive after all. It's mass produced as the magical equivalent of flypaper, and used to capture burglars. Normally it comes with Phase Spiders who eat the frozen people.

Flypaper is designed to kill, not to test. It could be a good introduction, if the PC knew that the trap was designed to kill them. It would certainly change the mood of the trap. But, it would have to be much more deadly, and there would be no place for the sleeping adventurers...
But, then again, who made the magical gem ? Who dug the dungeon around it ? Why did he do that ? To attract adventurers ? Why such feud against them ?
This could be interesting to add features to the dungeon that would reflect the avenging mood of the architect then.
Unfortunately, it doesn't account for the fact that it attracts low level adventurers.

1. the conundrum is actually to see how capable the players are at suspending their disbelief. If they succeed as doing so, they 'win' and are rewarded with lots of fun. If they fail, they 'lose' and are forced to go back to their dreary lives in reality-land where everything makes sense.

Reality doesn't make sense most of the time. It doesn't have to. Fiction has to make sense, in MY opinion.

1. it's a test for GM's. If you like the idea and want to use it in your game, the challenge is for you to come up with your own "point" that will satisfy you and your players. If you do so you win! if you don't like the idea, you can just ignore it, and you still win! Just be careful that you don't get caught staring at the puzzle like it's a Hypnotist's Spiral, trying to find a central point that isn't actually there. It's harder to win that way.

The thing I really like about roleplaying games is that you don't win. Having fun is all that matters. I really tried hard to give the trap some time and thinking. I couldn't come up with any way to make it fun, because I failed to see the point of the thing. It means that I should heed your advice and ignore it... And win.

Thanks for your time.

 

[Heathen72]

It's certainly important for my character. In trying to figure out how to solve a problem, knowing why the trap is set is clearly important. If there is no reason for the trap to be there, then there is no reason for a character to risk his life.

Where are the masses ? There is oubviously no public, except the adventurers. But even if there was a public, the Colosseum was a very expensive place to run, it took the might of Rome to pay for it. Plus, the gladiators had no choice but to fight and die for the entertainement, do you suggest that the PCs involved would be trapped in the dungeon just like gladiators "trapped" in the arena ?

What is the point of testing low level characters then ? If there is such a best of the best test, it should attract, and test, the... Best of the Best ! Not the low of the beginners...

This could make sense, but gets old... Doesn't it ?

Flypaper is designed to kill, not to test. It could be a good introduction, if the PC knew that the trap was designed to kill them. It would certainly change the mood of the trap. But, it would have to be much more deadly, and there would be no place for the sleeping adventurers...
But, then again, who made the magical gem ? Who dug the dungeon around it ? Why did he do that ? To attract adventurers ? Why such feud against them ?
This could be interesting to add features to the dungeon that would reflect the avenging mood of the architect then.
Unfortunately, it doesn't account for the fact that it attracts low level adventurers.

Reality doesn't make sense most of the time. It doesn't have to. Fiction has to make sense, in MY opinion.

The thing I really like about roleplaying games is that you don't win. Having fun is all that matters. I really tried hard to give the trap some time and thinking. I couldn't come up with any way to make it fun, because I failed to see the point of the thing. It means that I should heed your advice and ignore it... And win.

Thanks for your time.

No problem, and thanks for replying. I am glad that it was actually something you were giving thought to - your initial posts were so short that they seemed to me to be a little bit curt. I wasn't sure initially if you were actually looking for an answer to the conundrum or just bagging the riddle.

I truly don't think the context is important to the conundrum we were given, especially as the OP didn't include the context in the original post, or thereafter. It may have been there, and I am happy to be proven wrong, but I didn't think it was relevant. My understanding was that what was being described was a hypothetical "Dungeon" type puzzle, one where the players are required to suspend their disbelief a little. So I felt that in demanding a point you were perhaps acting a wee bit obtuse in order to make some point to the effect that such puzzles aren't worthwhile if they aren't in someway realistic. I am sorry if I misread your intention.

In my response to your post, I was to trying to show that there are some circumstances where the dungeon could conceivably occur. Some were more realistic than others, but each of them were conceivable depending on the environment where they were placed. I was trying to use my imagination and I was hoping that you might be able to see the potential possibilities. Admittedly I was being a bit of a smart aleck, so I am not surprised you didn't quite come with me on that one!

To be blunt for a moment, not everyone expects the same level of realism in their games as you appear to require*, especially in their dungeons. Some do, there is no doubt, but I think it's vital -particularly at ENworld - that we all acknowledge that YMMV because our approaches to gaming are so vastly different.

Ultimately, we were discussing a hypothetical situation. if you don't like someone else's answers, come up with some yourself. Contribute! I am sure that with a little thought you are just as able as I to create a situation where the puzzle makes sense in a realistic world (albeit one with wizards, supernatural creatures, and alien races with bizarre cultures of their own). I for one would like to see it.

To paraphrase, One of the good things about ENworld threads is that no one needs to win....

I am reminded of Sigourney Weaver railing at the architecture of the spaceship in Galaxy Quest that "This episode was poorly written!"