How Do You Like Your Death in D&D

[Laurefindel]

I wish I could select all options at once except for the first and last one, and change all « only » and « can » by « may ».


PC deaths may happen when dramatically appropriate, or as a result of a player’s choice, or as a result of a series of bad rolls, or after reckless/stupid decisions, but remain relatively rare.

 

[iserith]

I like PC death to occur as often as the situation warrants it, that is, when the characters are making reasonably informed decisions that are either subpar or, when uncertain as the outcome, not backed up by good dice rolls. In practice, once past apprentice tier, character death is fairly rare in my experience.

The main thing for me is that I want to minimize the amount of time a player is no longer playing a character. Therefore, we prepare for the possibility of death by having backup characters on hand and ready to jump in when the player is good to get back to playing.

 

[Satyrn]

That sounds like a rules blunder to me. You can attack to subdue with a melee weapon, and there's no risk of death. The attack just knocks a character unconscious without killing them (they don't have to make death saving throws; they just wake up after 1d4 hours).

I was gonna say this, too, but I reread the rules first and decided that we're probably wrong.

The "knock 'em out instead" rule reads like it's meant to be applied to the NPCs the DM rules die at 0, while those who get death saves, like the PCs, follow the method @LarryD's table used.

 

[LarryD]

I was gonna say this, too, but I reread the rules first and decided that we're probably wrong.

The "knock 'em out instead" rule reads like it's meant to be applied to the NPCs the DM rules die at 0, while those who get death saves, like the PCs, follow the method @LarryD's table used.

It's a bit of a houserule. DM treated it the opposite of a coup de grace: in this case, though, don't roll a 20. Which is exactly what the barb did. Our table - including the player running the rogue - thought it was hilarious, and memorable.

 

[Blue]

I was gonna say this, too, but I reread the rules first and decided that we're probably wrong.

The "knock 'em out instead" rule reads like it's meant to be applied to the NPCs the DM rules die at 0, while those who get death saves, like the PCs, follow the method @LarryD's table used.

I just reread the "Knocking a Creature Out" section (PHB 198). It seems to come into play anytime an attacker wants to incapacitate a foe. I see nothing there that would imply that it doesn't apply to PCs.

The fact that you can go unconscious at zero HP does not invalidate it any more then you can go unconscious from a Sleep spell. It's not about just unconsciousness, it's rendering unconscious without killing. Since even monsters can use the same system as PCs (see that paragraph directly above that section), it's would be really odd that the hardest to kill are the ones that the rules make possible to kill on a blow that absolutely can't kill anyone else.

 

[5ekyu]

Idon't have a lot of time this morning so my reply will be briefer than I'd like.

It is not about carrots and sticks so much as its about clear signaling of player desire and stakes and game mechanics that will matter to the campaign in question. Without game mechanics, the activity while fun, isn't much of a game. And I'm not talking about having a RP-heavy session; I'm talking about a RP-heavy campaign. When I refer to campaign I generally mean a game that is expected to run for multiple years. As a quick example, no version of D&D offers the DM and other players structured insight into a character's motivations, fears, or desires. Contrast this with Pendragon, FATE, Hero System, GURPS, Gumshoe, Burning Wheel, or Vampire the Masquerade. Almost no version of D&D offers a mechanic for testing resolve of a character PC or NPC preferring to rely entirely on the controlling player's decision. Contrast this with all the above plus the Unisystem and Powered by the Apocalypse rulesets. No version of D&D has mechanics to support social, material, or verbal conflict. Contrast this with Dogs in the Vineyard and FATE.​

I have played and run a lot of VtM from 1st yo 3rd editions and honestly, it's been a while, but I recall very little "structured insight into a character's motivations, fears, or desires. " that goes significantly further than the dnd53 flaws, ideals, bonds and alignments. I recall the humanity vs beast sub-system but that's different and is pretty easily supported using additional abilities as detailed in dmg where they use iirc sanity and faith (or was it honor?)

I have played plenty of systems where you could codify in rules character personality with die rolls and such or gimmick/favor points awarded when you made the gm happy and such.

It is my experience that the players who enjoy more role playing give me even more of it when it's not required to be codified in rules with modifiers and scores or labels or whatever valuation the system tries.

I guess I remain OSR in regards to how much "help" I see adding a ruleset onto the roleplaying side gives you as far as in game play.

Have yet to see a rule help roleplayers roleplay in any significant way.

 

[Satyrn]

I just reread the "Knocking a Creature Out" section (PHB 198). It seems to come into play anytime an attacker wants to incapacitate a foe. I see nothing there that would imply that it doesn't apply to PCs.

The fact that you can go unconscious at zero HP does not invalidate it any more then you can go unconscious from a Sleep spell. It's not about just unconsciousness, it's rendering unconscious without killing. Since even monsters can use the same system as PCs (see that paragraph directly above that section), it's would be really odd that the hardest to kill are the ones that the rules make possible to kill on a blow that absolutely can't kill anyone else.

That little I phrase I bolded immediately had me wondering why you referred to knock 'em out rule as a separate section . . . and it turns my cheatsheet has a formatting error that made it look like it was a continuation of the DM might have the monsters just die at 0.



. . . and now I'm wondering how many PCs I've killed because of editing mistakes. That should be a poll option!

 

[Lanefan]

There probably needs to be an option in the poll to fit between "life is cheap" (a rather biasing way of putting it, btw) and "only when dramatically appropriate" to the general effect of "PC death is a known and accepted part of the game".

Also, as someone upthread already mentioned, a qualifier as to revival availability would help too. There's a huge difference, for example, between the two extremes: "Life is cheap and death is forever" and "Easy go, easy come - death is a revolving door".

For my part, though I voted for "life is cheap" that vote carries the assumption that revival effects - even if quite costly - are available in the game for those as wants 'em.

Lan-"not dead yet"-efan

 

[Hjorimir]

Give it to us raw...and wriggling!

 

[Greg Benage]

It is not about carrots and sticks so much as its about clear signaling of player desire and stakes and game mechanics that will matter to the campaign in question. Without game mechanics, the activity while fun, isn't much of a game. And I'm not talking about having a RP-heavy session; I'm talking about a RP-heavy campaign.​

Based on the bolded sentence, it sounds like you're talking about a game-heavy campaign.

And for the record, I agree with this. Pretty much without exception, the storygame RPGs definitely extend the rules, structures, and other gamey bits into more aspects of the RPG experience.

If your definition of "roleplay-heavy" is something like "play a character for whom I can collaboratively create a satisfying story arc," these extra gamey bits are useful and fun. If your definition is something like "explore what it's like to be a character in this fictional world," they're often less useful and less fun, and sometimes push back against what you're trying to do.

Neither priority is superior to the other. Neither constitutes a universal definition of "roleplaying."