How do you make a player play a normal character?

[mythago]

All I'm saying is that if D&D's social norms are more important than your own societal social norms, you're mal-adjusted.

You're so busy identifying with, and feeling sorry for, this problem player that you've stopped even making sense.

There are certain rules of social behavior that friends follow when they are trying to have a good time together. When one person's behavior is selfish, thoughtless, inappropriate and spoils everyone else's fun, you don't let them roll over you because "He's a friend!"

If gaming is so damn unimportant, then clearly Mr. Goofy PC can adapt HIS behavior to the game. Being as he's a friend, and all, right?

 

[JesterPoet]

Holy Bovine: If you had bothered to read the rest of the thread, you'd have seen that Altin alread brought up all the things you quoted, and I addressed 90% of them, so I won't bother to do so again, it would be a serious waste of time. (By the way, I didn't see you defending against the slandering of gamers in the GenCon threads either so I think your high and mighty complaint at my "gross generalization" is laughable at best).

Mythago: What you said really isn't worth responding to, but I will anyway. I am not identifying with or feeling sorry for this player. It is distinctly possible that he's being a bad player, and yes, that sucks. What I am saying is that immediately dropping him from the gaming group is a bad idea if he is a friend, and there have been many better suggestions to try first. By the way, again... you ought to try reading the whole thread before responding to something already discussed as well.

But nonetheless, I am done. My opinion, love it or leave it, is that these kind of problems can almost always be worked out. However, it usually means compromise on both sides, and it sounds like there are a few people here who refuse to believe that. Anyone who wants to is free to dump a player who is being "disruptive" without trying to work the problem out from his or her side as well, but you reap what you sow. When that friend isn't there down the road, chances are you're going to regret it.

That's it. Take it for what you think it is worth.

 

[La Bete]

Well, since you have established:

You dont want to game without your friend
You have talked to him, but he doesnt understand that he is doing anything 'wrong'
It is seriously bothering you
From your description it is likely to be bothering the other players.
The players personal behaviour isn't unacceptable, but the way he plays these characters is getting to you.

Well, as you are probably aware, its probably mostly a gaming style thing. He sounds more like a beer-n-pretzels style of gamer (nothing wrong with that), rather than the rest of the group which is a little more serious (nothing wrong with that either).

If you cant get him to change his ways, then youre probably best playing along, but directing those energies... He likes to play something a little 'weird'? goad him into playing an alternate race with special abilities, but ensure that he has to keep it secret - maybe have him have a sideline quest or something (again keep it quiet).

With a fair bit of the spotlight on him, he may settle down as far as party interaction goes. Not particularly fair to the other players, but hey.

Quite frankly however, you may at some stage be better off not having him in all the games you play, if your styles are very different. For example, my girlfriend used to be a gamer - but after a fair bit of talking, it became clear that her old group, and her style, was more BnP than my current group - so, although there is an open invite for her to join, we've pretty much figured it wouldnt be that much fun for all concerned.

PS, as for the societal norms discussion going on above - while I normally try and avoid these circular arguments, I had to chip in to this one.

I dont believe there is anything wrong with removing/not inviting a good friend along to any social context that you dont enjoy their company in. I have some good friends that I dont envite to some social contexts - and I dont see why the gaming context sholdnt be treated the same way.

Admittedly, if ejecting him is likely to cause friendship probs (and you have said it isnt an option), then that is a different story.

Hopefully, if he is a good mate, and a reasonable guy, he'll meet you halfway - fingers crossed!

PPS - JesterPoet - whether or not people who called you out on the asocial gamer comment, defended gamers in the gencon threads, your comment was still pretty uncalled for.


Edit - as for the random homicidal characters - nothing like a random sniper for those puppies.

 

[mythago]

but you reap what you sow

Which goes both ways, of course. Disrupting your friends' social activities, being immune to polite discussion about that, and then grumping about what bad friends they are...well....

You know the DespairWare slogan: "The only common factor in all your failed relationships is you."

 

[Pylar]

Ask him to DM a game, and play a character that resembles one of his. Be as flamboyant as you can about it, go over board. Show him how annoying it can be. Maybe he will get the hint.

 

[-Ekimus-]

We had something similar but not nearly to this degree in our group a while back. Our player would not stop making gunslingers in 3rd edition. It didnt exactly fit, and NONE of the characters worked out for the better.

The first time he made one, we were fighting an army of Fisdauntalis (sp). He was on top of a castle, waaaaaay far away, so he decided to shoot at a little spec in the sky, which was Fis.'s griffon. He ended up shooting, and hitting an arch mage who was in a big tree (i forget why) and knocking him off the tree to his death (the mage was about lvl 14). That character was executed

Another time we ended up going through the Isle of Dread. Normally the pirates wouldnt have pistols, but since he did, why not. He ended up blowing his "pirate cover story" and got half the party killed.

He made about 2-3 other short-lived pistoleers after that.

Now, he has played it out of his system. Have all the players give him a little constructive criticism. Have the DM question his character, asking if that will actual HELP the party, instead of making a SHORT LIVED CAMPAIGN and ruining it for others.

 

[Dustin Clingman]

I would say that there is an easier way to solve this than having a "sitdown".

My advice would be to play along and let him take whatever character he wants to play. Then have this character have to deal with the way that the rest of the game world views his behavior.

For instance, if he walks into a 7-11 with his guns on hooping and hollering, have the clerk call the cops and throw him in jail. This would happen in the real world wouldn' t it?

If he says something in character, have it come out in the game.

You can also play it out in the game to resolve it. For example, perhaps the players lose a contract for a mission because the client thinks that the wacky truck driver would kill his kidnapped daughter instead of the kidnappers. Have the players help to settle it in the game.

I have played in groups with people like this before and this approach worked. I don't like to tell people how or what to play, but they have to deal with the consequences of thier choices in the game regardless.

There shouldn't be "normal" character. Standard is a better word perhaps. I think that any player who enjoys playing his character should do so, but remembering that they have to deal with how thier player clashes with the world, Just like me and my plaid pants!

You should have seen how Dave Arneson reacted to my Halfling Barbarian!! I was a frontline fighter and man I was kicking butt! Sorta breaking the hobbitt mold eh. Maybe I am known as one of these types of players as well..

Dustin

 

[mythago]

Good ideas, Dustin.

I will say that IME, people who are not merely 'flamboyant' but are irritating Will. Not. Get. It. When their wacky gunslinger in parachute pants gets his butt kicked out of the Staid Academy, they will pout, whine and throw rules around. Double that if their actions actually get their character killed.

I think it depends on whether the person is just clueless ("Was I ruining the game for everyone? Oh geez, I'm sorry") or so self-centered that they take any criticism as a cruel, narrow-minded restraint on their artistic license.

 

[Dustin Clingman]

Yeah I can understand.. I have been playing games for a long time now and it's funny that my group never thought that we were geeky or wierd (who ever does? )

When I go to some hobby shops though, the freaks come out. I mean that in a good way though. Some people really have no lives other than thier gaming.. If they really don't get it, they might just need to go or to take a break. Just because someone has been in your group for a long time doesn't mean that they have the right to really ruin it for others.

The strange thing is that most groups establish the style of play pretty quickly. How could a problem person keep getting invited back time and time again if they are such a problem?


Dustin

 

[Holy Bovine]

Holy Bovine: If you had bothered to read the rest of the thread, you'd have seen that Altin alread brought up all the things you quoted, and I addressed 90% of them, so I won't bother to do so again, it would be a serious waste of time. (By the way, I didn't see you defending against the slandering of gamers in the GenCon threads either so I think your high and mighty complaint at my "gross generalization" is laughable at best).

And if you had checked the time on my post you would probably realize that I posted just after Altin and didn't see your answers to many of those questions. So yes, I grant you that you did answer most of my questions too. Great.

Oh yes all those threads. From when? Months ago? Weeks? Years? Give me a break. I don't read every thread on the boards so unless you can point to where I am making fun of other gamers....

Put whatever spin you feel you need to on your comment. the fact that so many have complained about it pretty much speaks for itself.