How do you 'nudge' your players away from tank mentality? (and high magic games)

Emirikol

Adventurer
How do you 'nudge' your players away from tanks? It seems that every group I've ever run thinks they need a lug, tank character. As soon as they get one, they STOP thinking and having interesting combat actions and move back to "D&D mini's mentality."

Our campaign group has the situation now and of course the Bbn outshines the other PC's 10:1 on damage and to-hit and the other players just sit there and send him into combats..or feign interest while he's blasting away. THis is an extension to the "are barbarians overpowered" thread from earlier.

The Lower-Magic Campaign characters are:
Thuh' Barbarian
Swashbuckler-rogue
Swashbuckler-rogue
Ninja-Spellthief
Rogue-Warlock
Rogue

Solutions? THoughts?

jh
 
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Ranged opponents who have cover; you'll need to climb the walls to get to them.

Flying foes who have Fly-By Attack.

Combat with invisible foes; skill checks to detect.

Foes who use magic to dazzle and confuse instead of attacking head-on.

Oozes.

-- N
 



Less combat, more social interaction.

Seriously. Have you asked your players whether their choise of classes, with less combat power and many skillpoints, is a cry for less combat and more social interaction/role play?
 

Emirikol said:
How do you 'nudge' your players away from tanks? It seems that every group I've ever run thinks they need a lug, tank character. As soon as they get one, they STOP thinking and having interesting combat actions and move back to "D&D mini's mentality."

Our campaign group has the situation now and of course the Bbn outshines the other PC's 10:1 on damage and to-hit and the other players just sit there and send him into combats..or feign interest while he's blasting away. THis is an extension to the "are barbarians overpowered" thread from earlier.

Show them.

Use all those nifty little tactics in the combat rules that tanks never ever bother to use... Disarming, Tripping, Bull-rushing, Feinting, etc... Make sure the know that are other viable combat options than just "I attack", and the best way to make them sure of it is to use those tactics against them. Epecially if those tactics put the barbarian into a situation where he needs help from the others (though try not to pick on him unduly).

Once they get the idea that those options ARE useful, they'll start using them.
 

Crothian said:
Hit the Barbarian with a few will saves, take him out of combat.
That's what I'd do.
Hold Person spells make your tanks cry.
Not only do they not get to tank for a couple of rounds, but they also have to be protected from coup de grace attempts.

Domination spells make everyone cry.
I was running a tank once who got dominated by a vampire. The party's solution was to close the door and leave the tank there. They then went a few rooms away, buffed up, and came to save my tank - it took too much of the party's resources though. So we had to go rest somewhere.

If you're sick of your players having a tank mentality, make tanks a liability every now and then.
 

BlueBlackRed said:
If you're sick of your players having a tank mentality, make tanks a liability every now and then.

Well, don't completely force your way over theres. Some people resent that.
 

Crothian said:
Hit the Barbarian with a few will saves, take him out of combat.

I already had him kill off two party members in the Age of Worms adventure with the dopplegangers. That wasn't fair to the other party members.

He's been good enough to avoid the cleave feats (I asked him to not take those for the sake of the 'typical' campaign) and he's a good player (because he's also a DM so he sympathizes). I hate to 'punish' anyone. I just want to "nudge" them.


Along those same lines, would it be a good DM tactic to just plain tell the players (lie) that the campaign becomes a lot more "will-save" based or something? Just to plant the seed in their brains I mean...

Keep the ideas comin'. I'm writing as fast as I can in the campaign notebook :)


jh
 
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monboesen said:
Seriously. Have you asked your players whether their choise of classes, with less combat power and many skillpoints, is a cry for less combat and more social interaction/role play?


When you look at the classes, you have to consider the world. It's Hyboria. Low magic. Low AC. Spellcasters must multiclass. The warlock, as I discovered isn't as 'ominous' as it's supposed to be. It's powerful, no doubt, but is essentially a one-trick pony (without the rogue classes, it would really be overspecialised..and probably be just as overpowered in this campaign as the barbarian). All he's got is his "blast" ability. The same would be true for a Dragon Shaman. The rogue swashbuckler characters are where I'd like to see the game go, but as long as there's a tank in the party, it changes player (and DM) mentalities. I don't "not" want there to be a barbarian, I'm just wondering how I can keep it from

From the DMing end, I'm avoiding the hyper-magical environment and monster-A-Z-Zoo-adventures that we typically play (e.g. Greyhawk) so simple spell-like bandaids are less useful to me (they break the feel of the campaign).

Anyone have combat environment ideas that I can consistently use without making them seem cliche? Also, since there are so many rogues, any ideas for getting them more involved?

jh
 
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