How Do YOU Run Inventors, Alchemists, and Enchanters in 5e?

[doctorbadwolf]

I love playing McGuyvers and other inventors and the like in TTRPGs. Normally, I scratch that itch with Star Wars, usually Saga Edition bc none of us want to play FFG, or the older wotc Star Wars games, and WEG doesn’t do our style well. But, we haven’t played SW in over a year and a half, and I finally made a Forest Gnome Inventor, Alchemist, and Enchanter (as in magic items) in my friend’s homebrew game, where the tech level is sort of “magical 14th-16th century”.

So, months of winging it on the inventions, alchemy, and magic item creation later, I’m curious about how y’all run such things in your games?

for us, we’ve landed on the following, but it’s still a work in progress.

For Alchemy, we first assume that chemistry is at a pre-combustion (Ie before modern chemistry, as such), and then we look at what can be made in 5e, between the phb, and the section on Alchemical Supplies in Xanathar’s. To make new things, or improve existing formulas, we have a basic process of r&d, where I have to obtain and use components equal to the purchase price of what I’m modifiying, and roll int+prof to see if I figure it out, make progress, or waste my time.

For inventions, it is basically like magic item creation, but without worrying about the rare ingredient (using XGTE rules). And I have to spend time making rolls and doing research and experiments, that basically ends up equaling the time it would take to make a magic item of a given rarity, that th DM decides is what the item would be if it were magic.

Magic items: Xanathar’s guide rules, but we add somethings. First, if there is a spell that I don’t have the caster levels to cast, and/or don’t know, I have to either find a Caster (and pay them), to help me, or I have to find a formula scroll, or make one from a casting scroll, and use it as if I were casting. The cost doesn’t count toward the cost of crafting.
If I fail the check, (spellcasting ability mod check = 10+spell level) I waste the scroll, and possibly the rare ingredient. OTOH, I don’t necessarily have to deal with the adventuring just to get an ingredient, I can often just buy it. DM knows he doesn’t need to find excuses to get us adventuring.
If there isn’t a spell involved with the item, we use the spell level that the DMG says makes an item appropriate for the rarity of the item I’m crafting.

So, anyone got their own systems, advice, fun stories?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

OH! Also, any critiques of how we run it?

 

[S'mon]

One thing I do is allow higher Tier crafters with an alchemy lab/wizard tower/crafting station etc to make stuff x10 faster than the official rule, so 5gp/day > 50gp/day for the alchemist, and 25gp/day > 250gp/day for the enchanter. This allows Uncommon items to be made in a couple days and Rare items in 20 days, Very Rare 200 days, which looks reasonable to me. Generally a PC would need to be 11+/Tier 3 to get this benefit since that is when they can create their own Wizard Tower (according to pre-3e D&D, which I treat as guidelines) or equivalent (Temple etc), but I have some lower level Artificer NPCs with similar power; in game terms they would likely have some kind of Crafting feat.

 

[Li Shenron]

For Alchemy, we first assume that chemistry is at a pre-combustion (Ie before modern chemistry, as such), and then we look at what can be made in 5e, between the phb, and the section on Alchemical Supplies in Xanathar’s. To make new things, or improve existing formulas, we have a basic process of r&d, where I have to obtain and use components equal to the purchase price of what I’m modifiying, and roll int+prof to see if I figure it out, make progress, or waste my time.

For inventions, it is basically like magic item creation, but without worrying about the rare ingredient (using XGTE rules). And I have to spend time making rolls and doing research and experiments, that basically ends up equaling the time it would take to make a magic item of a given rarity, that th DM decides is what the item would be if it were magic.

Magic items: Xanathar’s guide rules, but we add somethings. First, if there is a spell that I don’t have the caster levels to cast, and/or don’t know, I have to either find a Caster (and pay them), to help me, or I have to find a formula scroll, or make one from a casting scroll, and use it as if I were casting. The cost doesn’t count toward the cost of crafting.
If I fail the check, (spellcasting ability mod check = 10+spell level) I waste the scroll, and possibly the rare ingredient. OTOH, I don’t necessarily have to deal with the adventuring just to get an ingredient, I can often just buy it. DM knows he doesn’t need to find excuses to get us adventuring.
If there isn’t a spell involved with the item, we use the spell level that the DMG says makes an item appropriate for the rarity of the item I’m crafting.

I don't know the rules in Xanathar's, but overall these ideas sound fine to me. We can generally just use basic crafting rules to create standard items (or something close enough to existing stuff), and it will be ok.

If a player is interested, IMHO the "next tier" of rules complexity can for example include acquiring and bookkeeping the individual components, as well as formulas, a little bit like it's done in the World of Warcraft game. Generally I like the idea, but it's not for everyone.

A few editions ago (3.0) we were doing something like that (also for herbalists), but we basically limited ourselves to non-magical consumable items, while we kept using the regular magic items creation rules. I think the original motivation for us was exactly to have some more interesting non-magic equipment in the game. We mainly differentiated between alchemists and herbalists by focusing the first on stuff that affected objects and the second on stuff that affected creatures, but they worked otherwise similarly:

- you would acquire (buy, find in treasure, learn from teachers) "recipes" for specific items
- you would acquire (buy, harvest from nature/creatures) ingredients for your recipes
- you would use standard craft rules but roll relevant skills checks to verify your progress (in 3.0 we had Alchemy(Int) and Herbalism(Wis), in 5e you could use tools proficiencies)

 

[doctorbadwolf]

One thing I do is allow higher Tier crafters with an alchemy lab/wizard tower/crafting station etc to make stuff x10 faster than the official rule, so 5gp/day > 50gp/day for the alchemist, and 25gp/day > 250gp/day for the enchanter. This allows Uncommon items to be made in a couple days and Rare items in 20 days, Very Rare 200 days, which looks reasonable to me. Generally a PC would need to be 11+/Tier 3 to get this benefit since that is when they can create their own Wizard Tower (according to pre-3e D&D, which I treat as guidelines) or equivalent (Temple etc), but I have some lower level Artificer NPCs with similar power; in game terms they would likely have some kind of Crafting feat.

Interesting! I definately use the fact that NPCs aren't PCs in my games to divorce combat prowess from crafting ability in NPCs. A master enchanter isn't necessarily capable of shooting deadly lazers of doom, they're just a really rad crafter of magic items. My buddy who is DMing the game in question is slightly less inclined toward that mindset, but not by much.

I like the idea of higher tier crafting, but since there's little balance guidance on items in 5e, I think we'd probably require a feat, which would have a level prereq, to do so. Or just, putting together such a space is something that takes a lot of time and money, so low level characters can start work on it early, but it won't be finished while they're still low level.

Thanks for the ideas!

I don't know the rules in Xanathar's, but overall these ideas sound fine to me. We can generally just use basic crafting rules to create standard items (or something close enough to existing stuff), and it will be ok.

If a player is interested, IMHO the "next tier" of rules complexity can for example include acquiring and bookkeeping the individual components, as well as formulas, a little bit like it's done in the World of Warcraft game. Generally I like the idea, but it's not for everyone.

A few editions ago (3.0) we were doing something like that (also for herbalists), but we basically limited ourselves to non-magical consumable items, while we kept using the regular magic items creation rules. I think the original motivation for us was exactly to have some more interesting non-magic equipment in the game. We mainly differentiated between alchemists and herbalists by focusing the first on stuff that affected objects and the second on stuff that affected creatures, but they worked otherwise similarly:

- you would acquire (buy, find in treasure, learn from teachers) "recipes" for specific items
- you would acquire (buy, harvest from nature/creatures) ingredients for your recipes
- you would use standard craft rules but roll relevant skills checks to verify your progress (in 3.0 we had Alchemy(Int) and Herbalism(Wis), in 5e you could use tools proficiencies)

We use a lot of the same ideas on aquiring/creating the forula/diagram/whatever, gathering supplies, and then making rolls to determine results. For simple stuff, we tend to skip rolls, but I'm trying to sway things toward making rolls to determine how quickly things go.