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How do you stat out rulers such as kings and queens in your games?

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
One of the things that concerns me if that if the monarchs don't have good HP and AC, then any low-level PC group can bump 'em off with ease and grab the royal crown, etc.

Maybe. But doing that would be dumb. See below....

Granted they have guards and knights, but they aren't always surrounded by them.

The king isn't always surrounded by guards and knights? Since when? He's got an entire castle of them around him, and no, you can't just come in 'cause you feel like it! He's got personal guards at least outside his chambers, if not within, *all the time*. His chambers have the nation's top clerics and wizards laying protections upon them. There's likely a golem in every room he frequents keyed to respond to his command and defense....

But, let us say that all isn't true. Let us say a bunch of level 5 characters get in, and kill him.

So, you bumped off the king. Now what? If the kingdom in general does not have a tradition of ascending to the throne by killing the current monarch, killing the king does not make you king. So, what do you think the next real king is going to do with king-killers, hm? Something like, "throw the entire might of the kingdom into finding them and bringing them to justice"? Yeah, that sounds about right.

The king may not be particularly potent themselves, but they have command of potent people. A low-level PC group now has all the king's potent people after them. What's their life expectancy, do you figure? Any loot they got off him is now unsellable - if they find a buyer for the crown jewels, that buyer is going to turn them in for a fat reward and pardon for past questionable behavior! They can't talk about what they've done, or soon afterwards they will have the full weight of the nation fall upon them.

Why, exactly, did you want to kill the king, now?
 
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Azzy

ᚳᚣᚾᛖᚹᚢᛚᚠ
Seems like a pretty substantial list for Scottish kings!

AFAICS nobles were well trained, and it makes no sense to distinguish 'noble' from 'knight' for the medieval period.

The "medieval period" is a long stretch of history (roughly a thousand years), and throughout that time not all nobles or royals were William the Conquerer or Vlad Tepes strength-at-arms types—their were idle idols and throne jockeys that held their position merely through inheritence and had nothing to back it up except for title (neither having the martial prowess of their bellicose counterparts, any form of competence in leadership or administration, or any personal merit whatsoever).
 

Azzy

ᚳᚣᚾᛖᚹᚢᛚᚠ
One of the things that concerns me if that if the monarchs don't have good HP and AC, then any low-level PC group can bump 'em off with ease and grab the royal crown, etc. Granted they have guards and knights, but they aren't always surrounded by them.

How often A) do your PCs actually interact with rulers for this to be a consideration, B) are you concerned that your players would even try something like that in the event that they do interact with rulers?
 

S'mon

Legend
The "medieval period" is a long stretch of history (roughly a thousand years), and throughout that time not all nobles or royals were William the Conquerer or Vlad Tepes strength-at-arms types—their were idle idols and throne jockeys that held their position merely through inheritence and had nothing to back it up except for title (neither having the martial prowess of their bellicose counterparts, any form of competence in leadership or administration, or any personal merit whatsoever).

You can have some incompetent monarchs use the MM Noble stat block, that's fine. Others should use Knight, Warlord etc as appropriate.
 

Larnievc

Hero
I’d honestly stat them as a noble.

Unless you want them an ex adventurer in which case make a character.

Normally their role is to use their special ability ‘Command Subjects’ in whic case they are not going to be the involved in combat encounters with the PCs.
 

Satyrn

First Post
Saying “I don’t bother” is about as helpful as saying to someone who askes “How do you make bacon mashed potatoes” with “I don't bother.”

Technically I suppose it’s an answer, but not terribly helpful.

I don’t have a beef. Just pointing that out is all. And I did answer the second part by my first answer. I.e., why would I link to a statblock somewhere when I just said it all depends and there isn’t any handy statblock?
I'm amused that you think "It depends" is superior to "I don't bother."
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
Speaking of beefs, I think it’s you who has some beef with me. I don’t know what your issue is man. I didn’t just say it depends. I gave a pretty detailed explanation, with examples, as to why.

Going back to the mashed potato analogy, if you don’t see the difference between:

“I don’t bother”

And

“It depends. A rich creamy version would be with an electric beater and milk which is much different than a chunky version using cream cheese. So you need to know what you want.”

Then I don’t know what to tell you.

But whatever, I’m not gonna argue with someone who is determined to ignore the context of my comments.
 
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Hriston

Dungeon Master of Middle-earth
A stat block is for combat, so it may be unnecessary. For social interaction, a starting attitude and perhaps some personal characteristics are more important. The noble's skills and ability scores are pretty good for that too.

The OP's question, however, implies that combat with the monarch is on the table. In that case, I think the noble is somewhat inadequate. It has some more interesting options than the commoner, but not much more in the way of staying power. So it depends what the ruler's role in the narrative is. I'd use the noble if the ruler is meant to represent someone who can be easily dispensed with, without much power to affect the narrative. If, on the other hand, the ruler is meant to have the kind of narrative power that genre convention might suggest in the form of a character like King Arthur, then I think a more substantial stat block is in order.

Gary Gygax seems to have thought that rulers needed to have the power to hold their own in combat when populating his World of Greyhawk. Here's a sample of some of the rulers of the various countries:

Kevont, the Prelate of Almor, Cleric 12
Walgar, the Margrave of Bissel, Ranger 15
Yolande, Queen of Celene, Fighter 7/Magic-user 11
Margus, the Magister of Dyvers, Thief 17
Xargun, the Caliph of Ekbir, Cleric 16
King Ralff of the Fruztii, Fighter 15
Belvor IV, the King of Furyondy, Paladin 14
Owen I, Grand Duke of Geoff, Fighter 13/Illusionist 15​

You get the idea.
 

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
One of the things that concerns me if that if the monarchs don't have good HP and AC, then any low-level PC group can bump 'em off with ease and grab the royal crown, etc. Granted they have guards and knights, but they aren't always surrounded by them.

Any sufficiently crazy or motivated idiot with a knife or gun can kill the President. That's why there are lots of folks whose job it is to make sure it doesn't happen. A ruler's power isn't strength or stamina, its charisma and wealth. They don't generally deal or take damage from PCs, they have people for that.
 

S'mon

Legend
Some noble stats from my Wilderlands game, the Bronzes of Hara:

King Namelin Bronze I ,King of Nerath (fr 20/8/4447) & Lord of Hara
Alryan Human Male, Knight
ST 16 DE 14 CO 16 IN 13 WI 15 CH 16
AC 19 (15 half plate, +2 shield, +2 DEX) HP 76 (10d8+30)
CR 5 PB +3
Saving Throws Str +6 Con +6, Wis +5
Senses passive Perception 12. Disadvantage on Stealth checks.
Languages Common,
Brave. Advantage on saving throws against being frightened.
Duelist: +2 damage with 1-handed melee weapon.
MI: +1 longsword

Actions
Multiattack. He makes two melee attacks.

+1 Longsword "The Sword of Bronze". Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit , reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 10 (1d8 + 6) slashing or piercing damage.

Sword of Kane - +1 Greatsword - borrowed.

Heavy Javelin. Ranged Weapon Attack: +6 to hit, range 20/60 ft., one target. Hit: 8 (1d10+3) piercing damage. Javelin pin breaks on impact, cannot be rethrown. If it hits a target's shield the shield is pinned and useless, STR check DC 15 to remove.

Leadership (3 uses, Recharges after a Short or Long Rest). As a Bonus action, the knight can grant Advantage to one Ally on his next attack. If the ally hits with this attack he does +1d8 damage.

T: 177,000gp from the 277K+ Hoard of Matriarx!
_______________________

Sir Ector Bronze, Prince of Nerath, Knight of Nerath
PB+3
Armor Class 19 (half plate, shield, +2 DEX) > AC 22 with Parry Reaction
Hit Points 112 (15d8 + 45) Speed 30 ft.
STR 19 +4 DEX 16 +3 CON 17 +3 INT 9 -1 WIS 13 +1 CHA 16 +3
Saving Throws Str +7, Dex +6, Con +6
Skills Athletics +10, Intimidation +6
Senses passive Perception 11
Languages Common
Challenge 5 (1,800 XP) PB +3
Brave. advantage on saving throws against being frightened.
Brute. A melee weapon deals one extra die of its damage when he hits with it.

Actions
Multiattack. Ector makes three melee attacks
or two ranged attacks.

Shield Bash. Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 2d4+4 bludgeoning damage. If the target is a Medium or smaller creature, it must succeed on a DC 15 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone.

+1 Battleaxe Melee Weapon Attack: +8 to hit,
reach 5 ft. one target. Hit: 2d8+5 slashing damage, or 2d10+5 2-h

Reactions
Parry. Ector adds 3 to his AC against one melee
attack that would hit it. To do so, he must
see the attacker and be wielding a melee weapon.

_____________________________________

Lady Anna Bronze, Princess of Nerath
Alryan Human Female, Noble
ST 7 DE 10 CO 10 IN 13 WI 10 CH 15
CR 1/4
AC 10 HP 22 (4d8)
SA: Diplomat, expert Persuasion (+6 to checks)
Feat: Ritual magic, Wizard level 2
MI: Wand of Magic Detection
Wand, uncommon
This wand has 3 charges. While holding it, you can
expend 1 charge as an action to cast the detect magic
spell from it. The wand regains 1d3 expended charges
daily at dawn.
______________________

However I don't have stats for the elderly Matriarch of the family, the Lady Llanet Bronze (mother of those three) - in a way she is the real power. I'd probably use the Noble stat block with very high Persuasion/Deception/Insight skills.18 stat + Expertise would give her +8 on checks.
 

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