How do you think creating NPC's will be handled

[doomwh]

One of the most time consuming things I ran into was making mid level and higher npc's. Between the the feats and skills and equipping them, it seemed to take forever. I would be all excited when I started with the concept but by time I got to the end, well I just felt like that it was alot of work. I'm not talking about the bartender or cook, but major npc's. The 3.5 DMG offered a good section on less then heroic npc's but did work for powerful npc's that would rival the pc's.And for me it has always been a fun part of D&D, having a rival adventuring party or actual group of evil adventuers (or good depending upon the campaign) that are constantly at odds with my players. They really seem to enjoy this complication in addition to killing monsters and saving the world. One of the things I loved about Dungeon is I could cherry pick some npc's stats and use them and that helped some. I haven't read much about npc creation, but the monster info intrigued me. I like what I've read about being able alter the monster as needed without throwing everything out of whack, and I'm hoping they will offer similar options when it comes to npc's. How do you think npc's will be handled in the 4th edition Dm Guide, and do you think combat between Pc adventuring parties will be balanced with a npc party of their peers?

 

[~Johnny~]

One of the great things about Star Wars Saga Edition, which I expect to be true of 4e, is that creating high-level PCs is pretty easy. The biggest barrier in 3e is skill points, which seem to be gone in 4e (replaced with Saga-style "trained" or "untrained" skills and level-based bonuses). You'll still have to pick feats and talents, but there's less number crunching involved. The lack of Ability score-affecting magic items should also be handy in reducing the calculations you have to make.

 

[Lord Xtheth]

I hope its somthing as mind-numbingly simple as a yes/no chart

Does the NPC have this feat
Yes- wright it down move to next question
No - Move to next question

Does your NPC have this blah blah
Yes- Blah
No - Blah

 

[Gundark]

Star Wars Saga is definetly a step in the right direction. However I'm hoping that 4e is even faster with the NPC creation times. There is a lot more options with a fantasy game espically D&D.

I want something fast and but still gives me complex npc. Spycraft 2.0 is the standard with their system. I'm not saying they need to copy SC 2 over to D&D, but something with that kind of simplicity is fine.

 

[Steely Dan]

As long as an NPC does not have to have a large sum of hp/levels in order to be really good at certain skills I will be happy.

Look at dudes like Mozart, Jimi Hendrix or Allan Holdsworth, they would have a sick amount of Ranks in Perform (Instrument), but would not have more than a few hp.

 

[Veril]

When designing NPC's for the party I skip anything that is unimportant.

Skill Points: An NPC has 0 1/2 of full skill points in any skill I think he should have. (up to his normal class limits). Most adverarial NPC's will die before they get to use these skills.

HP: Average NPC's have average HP. good ones have 75% max, top ones have full hp.

Feats: I only bother to allocate half the NPC's feats, and assume if the NPC needs another one he has it or doesn't, according to my whim and what feels apropriate for the NPC and encounter.

 

[DSRilk]

The nice thing is that no matter how complex 4e gets when it comes to NPC or monster creation, I can always use my instant-creation method. Pick what you want. It appears that 4e has finally "caught up" to my thinking on the subject, at least in terms of monsters. To me, it's not "easy" to create new monsters by leveling them and adding templates (part of the reason those options were in 3e). To me, it's easier to get an idea and spec out the creature. I've always done the same thing for NPCs. PCs need rules for balance purposes. So that players are balanced against each other to some extent and to keep power levels of individuals and groups relatively on par with one another. However, NPCs need no such limitations. King of Aurundial? He's an old combat veteran who is known for his upstanding and diplomatic nature. So, he sounds like... power attack, cleave, 20 ranks in knowledge nobility, 15 in diplomacy, 10 in spot and listen, +15 attack/1d8+10 damage, 200 hit points... you get the idea. Even if I give him magic items, I'm not going to "add in" bonuses. Just because I give him +3 plate armor doesn't mean I have to calculate an AC. I just need raw numbers and abilities.

Character generation rules are an artificial framework for creating characters that work together as a group at a relatively similar power level -- they're there to create adventuring parties. That's it. They're not there to add realism or flavor. They're there to make PCs work. Creating a world, monsters, and NPCs is art, not programming -- even for an old programmer like me

If they want to help in NPC and monster creation, I think the best thing they can do is say, "average expected damage per round, hp, ac, and saves for a creature of level X are..." Anything else isn't really all that useful to me and, in my opinion, only serves to complicate matters.

 

[Walking Dad]

As long as an NPC does not have to have a large sum of hp/levels in order to be really good at certain skills I will be happy.

Look at dudes like Mozart, Jimi Hendrix or Allan Holdsworth, they would have a sick amount of Ranks in Perform (Instrument), but would not have more than a few hp.

Sorry, but you said the same here .

And there were som answers to it. You got a right point, but don't repeat it in every discussion, please.

I also think that a level 10 bard is better at perform than Mozart, Jimi Hendrix or Allan Holdsworth,
in the same way, that a level 10 fighter is better than all human fighters in reality. It's magic.

 

[Steely Dan]

And there were som answers to it. You got a right point, but don't repeat it in every discussion, please.

You're not the boss of me, now!

…And you're not so big…

 

[Dausuul]

What I'd like would be something along the lines of Iron Heroes villain classes (except better implemented). Instead of doing all the work of statting out a wizard, I just pick an appropriately-levelled "villain wizard," make a few flavor choices (ice or fire? evocation or necromancy?), and I'm ready to roll.