How Does AI Affect Your Online Shopping?

[Thomas Shey]

Small indie publishers still managed to write and publish their books long before the advent of AI. So if the cries of "what about the little guy?" sound a bit like a manufactured problem, it's because it is. I think generative AI is destroying these indie publishers, not helping them, and it was never an accident.

This kind of ignores the fact that it was not at all uncommon for the editing on those products to be really bad. Sometimes obviously so. in the cases where it wasn't, it was often because said publishers either happen to be decent editors themselves (something not everyone creative is) or bit the bullet to pay for an editor (often not a trivial cost by any means)

 

[CleverNickName]

This kind of ignores the fact that it was not at all uncommon for the editing on those products to be really bad. Sometimes obviously so. in the cases where it wasn't, it was often because said publishers either happen to be decent editors themselves (something not everyone creative is) or bit the bullet to pay for an editor (often not a trivial cost by any means)

Even so, indie publishers still managed to sell their work (bad editing, bad writing, terrible art, and all). I should know; I have a whole shelf of indie RPGs, adventure modules, and whatnot. I love them, warts and all.

But sadly, I think they're the last of their kind, for all the reasons I wrote.

 

[The Firebird]

Now as this poll shows, consumers clearly don't want AI-generated products: most people reject it purely on principle, and absolutely nobody believes it adds any value. So now, smaller indie publishers are left with an impossible choice: either they use genAI to produce something that won't sell, or they hire writers/editors/artists and pay them out of pocket (and hope to break even.)

I think there is a little tension here, in that I haven't seen anyone saying "I know AI won't sell, but I feel I have to use it" nor "I don't want to use AI, but I need to in order to reach an acceptable quality". In general the pro AI position appears to me advocating for certain uses of AI that are more limited and assistive.

 

[thirdkingdom]

Small indie publishers still managed to write and publish their books long before the advent of AI. So if the cries of "what about the little guy?" sound a bit like a manufactured problem, it's because it is. I think generative AI is destroying these indie publishers, not helping them, and it was never an accident.

First, genAI prices out human creators, then inserts itself as the only viable alternative. It looks like these two things are already happening, judging by the people in this thread who say they have no choice but to use genAI to produce their work.

Now as this poll shows, consumers clearly don't want AI-generated products: most people reject it purely on principle, and absolutely nobody believes it adds any value. So now, smaller indie publishers are left with an impossible choice: either they use genAI to produce something that won't sell, or they hire writers/editors/artists and pay them out of pocket (and hope to break even.)

It gets worse: there are still no laws or regulations currently in place to protect creatives or their work. Should someone ever create something original without the use of genAI, and it manages to sell enough to turn a profit, bad actors will just buy it and feed it to the algorithm to make AI "better." Those good sales will not be good for very long.

Small indie publishers keep touting genAI as a useful tool. I guess a wrecking ball is a type of tool...

I might be in something of a bubble, but absolutely none of the indie publishers I am aware of have any interest in AI, and in fact are extremely vocal about avoiding it. It would be like a punk band made up of cops.

 

[Retros_x]

In the end of the day, AI is a tool. It's how you use it. Same as hammer. You can build house or you can bash someone's skull.

Note there's question as to whether that means what you think it means here. The reporting on that particular case has been rather hit or miss.

I know how it was used in Expedition 33, but if I understood the example correctly it, it wasnt about using AI art in the finished product, but using gen ai in general. Thats why I brought up Expedition 33 or the source code, because I feel some people don't realize how widespread in existing workflows AI already is.

I suspect most people care far less about this issue with coding than what's considered the artistic part of products, except those who are simply hostile to AI in principal.

Interestingly enough there are quite similar ethical problems with gen ai for code, especially in terms of copyright. If the copyright of ones original work is of such a strong principal value to someone, they shouldn't be able to use most modern software. But I guess the principle goes only as long as its viable.

Except, of course, for the people who are hostile to in principal and not just in practice.

I guess I thought too much in economics terms about "value" here.

 

[Retros_x]

I might be in something of a bubble, but absolutely none of the indie publishers I am aware of have any interest in AI, and in fact are extremely vocal about avoiding it.

Do you know that in fact from their dev teams too? Or das "any" interest exclude interest in source code development or "business" text generation like emails, newsletter etc.

 

[CleverNickName]

I might be in something of a bubble, but absolutely none of the indie publishers I am aware of have any interest in AI, and in fact are extremely vocal about avoiding it. It would be like a punk band made up of cops.

Now that you mention it? Most of what I'm hearing along those lines came from Reddit, so whether or not they are truly indie publishers is...dubious.

 

[thirdkingdom]

Do you know that in fact from their dev teams too? Or das "any" interest exclude interest in source code development or "business" text generation like emails, newsletter etc.

I mean, I haven't done, like, a double-blind study or anything, but I've just entered my fourth year publishing a weekly newsletter covering OSR and indie ttrpg releases, so am reasonably plugged into the scene. Not as much as, like, the folks at IPR or Exalted Funeral, but it's not my first rodeo.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I guess I thought too much in economics terms about "value" here.

If you're knowledgable in economics, you've got to know that assuming rational actors is, in reality, a failure state.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

It would be like a punk band made up of cops.

Set list:

“Know your rights” (cover)
“Zoot Suit Riot” (cover)
“Smack my bitch up” (cover)
“Sound of da police” (cover)
“Nothing to see here”