D&D 5E How does that Fighter, Barbarian or Rogue become king? Bring on the Feat

Quartz

Hero
It's classic Conan, going from vagabond to king. And it happened in real life too.

But take a look at the typical Fighter, Barbarian, and Rogue: one or more of Int, Wis, and Cha are dump stats. Sure you can take the Skilled Feat, but as a king you're taking important decisions and trying to persuade important people with only that Proficiency Bonus. Sure, having your advisors to hand will give you Advantage, but when the crunch comes it's just you. You need to say the right thing at the right time. You need to make the right decisions.

So, mechanically, how do they do it? Or rather, how does your PC get to do it? I suggest that they get to add their high Proficiency Bonus a second time.

I smell a Feat here.

Feat: Canny
Prerequisite: Proficiency Bonus +4
Benefit: when making a skill roll or opposed skill check after you make the roll but before you know the result you may add your Proficiency Bonus to the roll. This ability does not stack with Expertise or any other ability which adds your Proficiency Bonus a second time. You may use this ability a number of times per day equal to your Proficiency Bonus. You regain all uses after a Long Rest.

Essentially this is a Shield spell for skills.

While I think the aim is clear, I'm not happy with the phrasing. In particular it is messing with the Rogue's Expertise ability. How would you do it?
 

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I would be hesitant with this. Making feats for things has the unfortunate tendency to just make DMs require them before someone can do something. I'd much rather see rules for the mechanics of leadership rather than a new feat tax for those who want to engage the role.

If we want to incentivize barbarian/fighter/rogues in the role, I'd do something like have spellcasters have a penalty ('not as relatable to the common folk,' or something) to some kind of roll within the mechanics (perhaps tied to investiture in spellcasting, such as -2 for 1/3 casters, -4 for 1/2 casters, and -6 for full casters, or maybe have divine be less penalty than arcane, or whatever else fits your individual campaign type).
I smell a Feat here.
 




GMMichael

Guide of Modos
While I think the aim is clear, I'm not happy with the phrasing. In particular it is messing with the Rogue's Expertise ability. How would you do it?
Something like this, maybe:

Feat: Canny
Prerequisite: Character's Ideal must be Elitism or Authoritarianism. Flaw must be Opportunist.
Benefit: the powers-that-be elevate you to kingship when you take this feat. You gain Advantage on all checks that benefit from executive royal privilege. After each Long Rest, roll 1d20. On a 1, someone assassinated you during your rest.

Failing that - being king has nothing to do with your ability scores, just like being village hero has nothing to do with your ability scores.
 

J-H

Hero
The average king can't derive the existence of calculus, probably didn't know how to reach the quadratic formula, wasn't a theologian or philosopher or scientist, and probably wasn't a great dancer or top-10% orator either.
Step 1: Hire good advisors.
Step 2: Ignore them when they're being foolish.
Step 3: Check competing power structures (nobles, churches, cities, neighboring nations) without killing them off.
Step 4: Don't screw up steps 2 or 3 by being wrong about it.

If you have a Wis 12 you're fine. Not Alexander or Peter the Great, not Charlemagne or Julius Caesar great, but good enough.

You really want to avoid a CON penalty. Those Hapsburg genes are killers after enough inbreeding.
 

DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin
but do they naturally have the stats to keep the crown? which I think is the topic of discussion.
LOL are you kidding? Do you know how unintelligent many rulers in history have been?

Remember, a 10 is average. Most people can do a heck of a lot just being average--including kings, etc. I am just having proficiency allows up to +6 on a check. And make those PCs just slightly above average, and it gets easier.
 

DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin
But take a look at the typical Fighter, Barbarian, and Rogue: one or more of Int, Wis, and Cha are dump stats.
I think this is more the issue. Why are you dumping in those stats? I mean, maybe one of them, but even if you go with the standard array your three lowest scores are 8, 10, and 12, so one of the three should be above average, and you would be average over all.
 

LOL are you kidding? Do you know how unintelligent many rulers in history have been?

Remember, a 10 is average. Most people can do a heck of a lot just being average--including kings, etc. I am just having proficiency allows up to +6 on a check. And make those PCs just slightly above average, and it gets easier.
most of those were born kings not the I went from a freeman to rulers of nations the latter has to be more exceptional as mobility up was not tolerated like it is today.
 

DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin
most of those were born kings not the I went from a freeman to rulers of nations the latter has to be more exceptional as mobility up was not tolerated like it is today.
True, but many weren't. But soldiers become generals become presidents or kings, other leaders rise through the ranks to fill lesser leadership roles. Rebellions happened and their leaders became the new kings as hundreds of nobles were put to death. A lot of these were rulers who rose or took over or whatever and could do it with average scores.

Regardless, the point stands. you don't need a special feat or any such thing. just put a better score in something and use the ASI to raise it +2. Most classes only need two scores, and you can have three 14's to start the game with point buy and not have anything else below a 10. with racial bumps, you have a 16 and 15 for your main scores, and put the 14 in a mental score which will help with the skills you want.

All such a feat does is encourage min/maxing of ability scores because now a feat can make up for the negative. I mean, with point buy I can spend 4 points to raise a 13 to 15 or 8 to 12. The +2 ASI can also raise 13 to 15, but an 8 only to a 10. You are better off with good and average scores and raise the goods to greats later than having dump stats if you don't like to have them.
 

True, but many weren't. But soldiers become generals become presidents or kings, other leaders rise through the ranks to fill lesser leadership roles. Rebellions happened and their leaders became the new kings as hundreds of nobles were put to death. A lot of these were rulers who rose or took over or whatever and could do it with average scores.

Regardless, the point stands. you don't need a special feat or any such thing. just put a better score in something and use the ASI to raise it +2. Most classes only need two scores, and you can have three 14's to start the game with point buy and not have anything else below a 10. with racial bumps, you have a 16 and 15 for your main scores, and put the 14 in a mental score which will help with the skills you want.

All such a feat does is encourage min/maxing of ability scores because now a feat can make up for the negative. I mean, with point buy I can spend 4 points to raise a 13 to 15 or 8 to 12. The +2 ASI can also raise 13 to 15, but an 8 only to a 10. You are better off with good and average scores and raise the goods to greats later than having dump stats if you don't like to have them.
if some become kings I wonder what the other options should be?
 


Oofta

Legend
That and we already have feats like prodigy feat if you want to be better at persuasion.

There's nothing wrong with adding a new feat for your game, but it's a pretty small niche.
 



Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
I take it we are assuming someone is rather amoral then?

Context matters - if you are taking control by force because the current regime is evil? Probably not.

Beyond that... please feel free to have a long debate with the party Paladin over whether the use of force for control is necessarily amoral. I don't think it adds to the discussion here.
 


Zubatcarteira

Now you're infected by the Musical Doodle
They can probably get by with average stats. The issue is casters coming to bully them, martials can't really handle that without some other casters willing to work for them.
 

Please feel free to have a long debate with the party Paladin over whether the use of force for control is necessarily amoral. I don't think it adds to the discussion here.
just wanting to get my parameters set up, any idea what the other classes get?
a feat that gives diet expertise is not a bad idea
 

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