How does tithing work?

[Fifth Element]

The main problem, I think, is that a DM who would enforce tithing would also not spare a second thought to stripping a paladin of his paladinhood if said paladin was trying to weasel his way out of his obligations. Assuming a LG paladin, of course.

 

[Loonook]

Tithe is 10% off of your gross income. In the case of a paladin who has multiple magic items and powers... Well, how does he pay his tithe?

First option is through payment of production. The Paladin who would be worrying about magical items would be able to pay through use of his own spellcraft. If we figure that the Paladin has spells? He may expend spells in lieu of part of his tithe or provide service to his Deity. A strong sword-hand in assistance to the Church during your down-time, leading the Church's men at arms in drills, serving as a knowledgeable "old hand" to adventurers, taking on specific missions for the Church, etc. could all be used for payment through production.

A Paladin may also provide for sponsorship of a church's deacons or laity through proceeds of his own adventuring. A paladin who has Leadership, for example, may task his underlings to assist the Church to pay his tithe. These individuals may help to provide support to the local Church through their following, and their conversion to the Faith is a nice metaphysical bump to the Tithe.

A Paladin of CL 12 would need 8800 GP in tithing. In lieu of throwing money away he may spend the period between Adventures in service to the Church providing training and other services to the Faith. If we figure the Paladin has spent 12 years as an adventurer (congratulations for your survival!) and spends the 'winter' of the party's adventuring year he would have earned ((top level)*90+([TL-1]*90)...+90) all the way down... So overall he has earned 7020 GP not including his healing and over spell use to the Church.

He will have more than earned his keep with the laity through his service, and spent 3 years in service to the Faith where he has gained contacts, learned Church secrets... And generally become more beloved by the Faith.

Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[Ed_Laprade]

For adventurers, I rather think that most churches would just work on their honesty and fear of the afterlife. Remember that rich people often gave more than their required tithe to church, to solidify political alliances, to ensure forgiveness of sins, and just because it was expected of them. A rich person usually helped pay for major renovations to the church, and often paid the wage of local priest.

i can't add anything to what has already been said. But, in the middle ages at least, the above often occured just before, or after, death. Something about one's fast approaching demise and concentration, I think.

 

[Janx]

ironically, the OP's question reminds me of the tale of where tithing came from.

So apparently, this holy dude was chilling out, talking to his peeps about supporting your friendly local church. His peeps were getting anal about just how much one should donate.

He dodged the question for a bit with some vague answers, about giving what you can afford, etc. They just weren't accepting that, so finally he exasperatively held up 1 finger and which meant "10%" and they were happy with that.

wikipedia doesn't confirm that story, but I heard it from some dude who went to the same church as the holy dude so it must be true.

The point of the story really was that tithe means 10% and it was done to stop the quibbling over trying to skimp out on donations to the church.

Which is what the paladin in the example is trying to knitpick.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I don't think tithing works in a system where you're supposed to spend all your cash on magic items, for the same reason you almost never see PCs in 3.x and 4e buy castles or spend money on things beyond adventuring.

If you have a maintenance cost system (Alternity had one), tithing could be added to that cost (raise it by 10%, or whatever %).

 

[AeroDm]

Cheating on your tithe probably wouldn't work very well in a world where the gods take an active role in things like your powers and eminent survival. On the other hand, I doubt they'd want you to have to sell your items and be less powerful in their service just to get some extra cash.

 

[billd91]

You pay 10% of your monthly income to the church. Sounds simple, right? Well, I've found this quite difficult actually.

Adventuring paladin gains very modest amount of gold but also powerful magical items from his slain opponents. Should he pay tithe according to the value of the items? How about other valuable items such as art objects or gems?

If I were DMing, I would have his church require 10% of all coin and precious items off the top as well as 10% of what he gets for converting other items into cash by selling them. I'm not going to require him to pay 10% of the value of any items he gets... unless he eventually sells them for money.

If the paladin comes into a windfall expensive item that he can use well, let's really make this a stark case by saying it's a +5 holy avenger, I'm not going to charge him 10% of that item's value.

The reason I won't require it is because, depending on his situation, he may be forced to sell useful items he can use to further his cause just to get the cash needed to pay the tithe. And that's a stupid position to put him in.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Even simpler for me: I only count what would normally be seen as income- whatever the society uses as easily fungible wealth. Typically, that would be cash (coins, typically), gems, hacksilber, jewelry, promissory notes, bank notes, deeds to land.

Not items like armor, weapons, or alchemical devices...typical booty scored by adventurers.

 

[Janx]

At face value, I'd agree with the main consensus above. It's easy to remember, implement, and be done with it.

However, you have to remember that PC Wealth is typically a game mechanic used to limit character power, and not an economic simulator. So you need to consider whether docking the Paladin 10% of his mechanical power is on par with the fictional expectations of his church. A flat fee for PCs may be more appropriate. Or not

Along that line of thinking, here's some more thoughts:

A Paladin WANTS to be able to donate to his church because it benefits a cause he believes in. So right off the bat, he's not looking to dodge taxes.

That means he's going to insist on his fair share of money AND gear, so he can be more effective and be able to donate vigorously.

The game balance effect (assuming proper design consideration took place) is that a 10th level Paladin's powers compensate for the 10% lack in magical gear that he couldn't buy when compared to a 10th level fighter in the same party who spent his cash on more upgrades because he had more cash (untithed funds).

As bill92 points out, the church doesn't want the Paladin selling his items so he can make his Tithe. That just weakens the church's agent in his ability to do good deeds and score phat loot which could later be donated. And the Paladin isn't going to be shy about insisting on his fair share of loot. He wants the money so he can happily donate and do his part.

Heck, a paladin probably looks forward to visiting the church, dropping off a donation, and reading the latest child's letter from the orphanage that his money helps. He's probably excited to tell the good padre that they found a load of gold from the dragon they killed and how it'll mean the orphans can get a new playground afterall.

 

[MarkB]

I don't think tithing works in a system where you're supposed to spend all your cash on magic items, for the same reason you almost never see PCs in 3.x and 4e buy castles or spend money on things beyond adventuring.

One way to make this work is to ensure that the church provides good "value for money", in the form of services that the PCs can't get as cheaply elsewhere - performance of rituals the party don't have access to, or provision of rituals / spells at a discounted value, easy access to resources such as healing potions and holy water, maybe even the opportunity to procure occasional Uncommon or Rare magic items that would otherwise be obtainable only as a lucky find.