How dumb are golems?

[Nail]

Golem Listings in RAW

Just so it's available, here is a list of all the golems I could find, and their mental abilities. (I don't have access to MMII.)

MM 3.5e
Clay: Int -, Wis 11, Cha 1
Flesh: Int -, Wis 11, Cha 1
Iron: Int -, Wis 11, Cha 1
Stone: Int -, Wis 11, Cha 1

FF 3.0e
Blood: Int -, Wis 11, Cha 1
Brain: Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 8
Demonflesh: Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 13
Hellfire: Int 12, Wis 13, Cha 14

ELH 3.0e
Mithral: Int -, Wis 11, Cha 1
Adamantine: Int -, Wis 11, Cha 1

MMIII 3/5e
Alchemical: Int -, Wis 11, Cha 1
Gloom: Int -, Wis 11, Cha 15
Hangman: Int -, Wis 11, Cha 1
Mud: Int -, Wis 11, Cha 1
Prismatic: Int -, Wis 11, Cha 11
Shadesteel: Int -, Wis 11, Cha 7


Comments:

• You'll note all the 3.5e versions have "-" for intelligence.
• Fiend Folio is one nasty book, it doesn't surprise me that they gave their golems Int. I wish they had called out what effects this would have on "golem behavior".
• In MMIII, the Gloom, Prismatic, and Shadsteel golems all have Cha above "1". I wonder what in-game effects that has......

 

[Shuffle]

A fun instruction!

So...the PCs step into the room, and don't attack the golem, and therefore don't damage the golem. What does the golem do? (Just ignore them, right?)

Better yet: the golem attacks the PCs, and the PCs attack back. The PCs don't have the appropriate material weapons (adamantine), and thus cannot damage the golem. Does the golem keep attacking them?

I want *you* to be the creator of all the golems my PC faces! Sounds like great fun!

Perhaps what he meant was an instructions along the lines of.
Attack everything that enters this room, always attacking the closest opponent, or the opponent that has done the greatest damage if there are multiple opponents in reach, opponents who do no damage are to be killed last.
I would say that perceiving damage done would fall under Wisdom.

Something along those lines would be an appropriate command. It allows a very well prepared party to turn almost any golem to swiss cheese (as they should) . But still lets the Golem pose a threat (as it should).

 

[azmodean]

What I actually meant is that, when in combat, the golem would ignore any opponent who has not harmed the golem in favor of opponents who have caused it harm. This is not an instruction to the golem, it is something I would expect all golems to do as part of their nature.

Otherwise a golem could be confused by having a phantasmal servant tap it on its shoulder, which some have said would constitute a successful attack (making an attack roll to make a melee touch attack)

 

[Storm Raven]

No reasoning ability is there at all. One table moves, the other does not. The golem is able to perceive this.

And distinguish between them

One creature "walked in thru the door", (say) while another "appeared". The golem is able to perceive this. The golem can't draw any reasoned conclusions from those observations, however. Instead, it has to base its actions on the simple commands given to it by its creator.

And it can distinguish between them. You are creating an artificial barrier to the ability of the golem to distinguish between things that is entirely arbitrary and nonsenical.

That's represented by the ability statistic Wisdom.

And hence, its ability to distinguish between threats and non-threats. And between summoned and nonsummoned creatures.

 

[Nail]

What I actually meant is that, when in combat, the golem would ignore any opponent who has not harmed the golem in favor of opponents who have caused it harm. This is not an instruction to the golem, it is something I would expect all golems to do as part of their nature.

I'll buy that for a dollar.

Otherwise a golem could be confused by having a phantasmal servant tap it on its shoulder, which some have said would constitute a successful attack (making an attack roll to make a melee touch attack)

Depending on the illusion (and I'll admit it's quite dependent), a golem could easily be fooled by a illusory "tap on the shoulder". That's the point, actually.

 

[Nail]

And distinguish between them

Yes. Obviously.

You are creating an artificial barrier to the ability of the golem to distinguish between things that is entirely arbitrary and nonsenical.

No artificial barrier at all. A golem can perceive, but it cannot reason. A simple RAW interpretation.

And hence, its ability to distinguish between threats and non-threats. And between summoned and nonsummoned creatures.

Nice try! Your first statement is not in dispute, so long as we define "threat" as "having done damage to the golem". Your second statement.......your second statement does not necessarily follow from your first statement. Still: Nice Try!

 

[Philip]

And hence, its ability to distinguish between threats and non-threats. And between summoned and nonsummoned creatures.

And between correct and incorrect mathematical formulas, and between truth and lies, and between.......

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

And between correct and incorrect mathematical formulas, and between truth and lies, and between.......

Actually, golems *could* concievably tell the difference between truth and lies.

They have a Wisdom score, and therefore have access to Sense Motive ...

 

[Trainz]

Actually, golems *could* concievably tell the difference between truth and lies.

They have a Wisdom score, and therefore have access to Sense Motive ...

I thought golems don't have access to skills ?

 

[domino]

Maybe not completely relevant to the discussion at hand, but a question I thought up.

Using the "attack anything in the room that enters through the door, and not anything else" rules we gave it.

If a PC were to say, throw a stone into the room, past the golem, I'd say it's fair call that the golem would turn around, to investigate the noise/see what it ran into, yes?

At that point, while its back is turned, the PC steps into the room. The golem turns back, and now, someone's in the room. But it didn't see that person come through the doorway. As such, it doesn't know that they did, because it completely lacks the intelligence to make that common sense leap.

Of course, this is depending on the PCs knowing the orders of the golem, but still.