How Fleshed out IS PoL going to be?

[dmccoy1693]

I have no idea how we could possibly make anything other than unfounded wild guesses here.

Ohhh like that stopped anyone before ...

[Unfounded Wild Guess]
There are going to be orcs and goblins and even an orc and goblin crossbreed.
There are going to be cats and dogs and even cat and dog crossbreeds.
There are going to be ancient ruins and lairs and even a lair of ancient ruins.
There's going to be five kingdoms that don't care about its people for every one that does.
There will be a purple Al Gore.
There will be gnomes to slaughter by the millions because they are so fierce.
There will be atleast 1 Kobold that will give players an actual challenge.
Lastly, there will be wise knowledgable person that can tell all the players everything they need to know, but will die a single moment before he/she/it can tell the players a single detail of it all.
[End Unfounded Wild Guess]

 

[Lackhand]

Ohhh like that stopped anyone before ...

[Unfounded Wild Guess]
...
Lastly, there will be wise knowledgable person that can tell all the players everything they need to know, but will die a single moment before he/she/it can tell the players a single detail of it all.
[End Unfounded Wild Guess]

AXEL NO!

 

[Voss]

Aren't they putting a (fairly-detailed) town in the DMG? And the stuff on elves and eladrins has made a certain amount of 'default world' assumptions. Eladrins only building a few cities in the world, failing a reconciliation and, in fact, being divided in their weird little cultural sub-species.

 

[kennew142]

Aren't they putting a (fairly-detailed) town in the DMG? And the stuff on elves and eladrins has made a certain amount of 'default world' assumptions. Eladrins only building a few cities in the world, failing a reconciliation and, in fact, being divided in their weird little cultural sub-species.

I imagine that fairly detailed towns will abound in the default setting. Locations designed in the published scenarios could possibly refer to one another (a la the 3.0 core adventures), and a default setting could slowly take form (a la Mystara). I would hope that the default setting never gets a campaign guide that goes beyond what's been revealed in scenarios and hints in other core books (i.e. no write-ups for the sake of write ups).

 

[The Cardinal]

I would like to see an actual write-up of the "official" PoL setting, including maps with (and this is important) large white areas of terra incognita: give us the general shape of a continent with several natural boundaries (mountain ranges, jungles, deserts, etc.) and a few small detailed areas around the "iconic" cities, towns, and villages. Add a bit of recent history and lots of unclear/unknown older legendary history before the recent "dark ages" to this and I'm satisfied.

 

[dmccoy1693]

When I first head of the PoL setting, I LOVED it. It was a homebrewer's dream come true. There is no "official" write up except what you put in it. If you want to put in some ruins that are heard about in legends but few ever go there and fewer still return and have it only 5 miles away from the starting village, you can do that. Explaination required: none. My problem is is that I don't see other fluff that was released with it as supporting it. Golden Wyvern Adept assumes an orginization called Golden Wyvern. That's not very Points of Light-ish. Then Tieflings come from an ancient pact made long long ago. Well, that's good for a homebrewer because 1) what if they don't want infernal pacts in their world and 2) what if they don't want that history.

I feel that 4E promises to work with the homebrewer, but then sneak attacks them. That, consequently, is one of the reasons why I don't like 4E.

 

[Hussar]

Then Tieflings come from an ancient pact made long long ago. Well, that's good for a homebrewer because 1) what if they don't want infernal pacts in their world and 2) what if they don't want that history.

Meh, how is that any different than "Elves hate orcs because the elven god put out the orc god's eye"? That's a whole pile of assumed setting right there. Certainly as much as "infernal pacts".

In my wildly unfounded speculation, I see the PoL setting starting out very bare bones. The town in the DMG, plus maybe development in the modules. Could work. Certainly has in the past. Both Mystara as mentioned, and Greyhawk saw their genesis this way.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Meh, how is that any different than "Elves hate orcs because the elven god put out the orc god's eye"?

Mostly because of where the gameplay weight in that sentence lies.

In "Tieflings are fiendish humans because of their ancient pacts with devils," one assumes that gameplay elements will focus on those ancient pacts with devils. Adventures will go to the ruins of their empire, devils will come seeking PC tieflings, tieflings will be inclined to manipulate and tempt, feats will make the tiefling more "devilish," etc.

In "Elves hate orcs because the elven god put out the orc god's eye," the gameplay elements more revolve around the fact that elves hate orcs. Adventures will have elves and orcs fighting each other, orcs will favor PC elves, orcs will be inclined to deforest and burn things, feats will make elves hurt orcs better, etc.

The former is very campaign specific, limiting to homebrewers, and less relevant to campaign settings where tieflings are, say, untouchable outcastes cursed by the good gods, or where they are fiendish humans because of their genetic heritage. The latter is much more broad -- elves could hate orcs for any number of reasons, and orcs would still burn things, elves would still hunt them, etc. The equivalent would be, say, designing elves to be good at blinding people in combat. That would reference the world-specific myth, and be less useful to homebrewers.

IF 4e's mechanics focus on "because," then they will be limiting. If the focus is broader, on "what they are," leaving the "because" open to individual DM interpretation, then it's more amicable to homebrewers. The important thing is that elves hate orcs, not the reason why. The important thing is that tieflings are fiendish humanoids, not any particular justification for that. 4e may very easily focus on the justification, rather than the important thing.

 

[Hussar]

IF 4e's mechanics focus on "because," then they will be limiting. If the focus is broader, on "what they are," leaving the "because" open to individual DM interpretation, then it's more amicable to homebrewers. The important thing is that elves hate orcs, not the reason why. The important thing is that tieflings are fiendish humanoids, not any particular justification for that. 4e may very easily focus on the justification, rather than the important thing.

Yes, but, you just answered your own concern. We ignore why elves hate orcs already. Or justify it any number of ways. However, there is still the mechanical effects. Take dwarves for example. Why do dwarves get +1 attacks vs orcs, but elves don't? Since elves hate orcs, shouldn't they get the bonus?

Homebrewers will always ignore the flavor text they don't want to use. It makes absolutely no difference what the flavor text is. You could easily say that elves hate orcs means that adventures will focus on going into orcish strongholds, defending against orcish attacks, etc.

If flavor=influence on campaigns, then different flavor doesn't matter. It all influences.

The latter is much more broad -- elves could hate orcs for any number of reasons, and orcs would still burn things, elves would still hunt them, etc

Unless, of course, the orcs are no longer evil nasty guys that go around pillaging and destroying. Thus, the flavor in the MM and PHB no longer applies. Maybe it's elves in my campaign that are destructive, evil bastards a la Melniboneans. The existence of flavor in the elf description in now way prevents me from doing that.

Nor will the existence of ties between tieflings and demons prevent me from turning around and saying, no, Tieflings in my world are the result of pacts with genies. Or, maybe Tieflings are simply Gods Blessed and go from there.

I mean, if Darksun could turn halflings into cannibalistic psychopaths, I'm thinking that it's not all that difficult to chuck flavor.

 

[dmccoy1693]

4e may very easily focus on the justification, rather than the important thing.

And that's what scares me. From what I've seen, it sounds like the justification is presented in PHBI.