How Grapples work. Do i have this right?

DarkJester

First Post
Our contestants:
Bob the Fighter
Nok the Ork

Its Bob's action and he is standing adjacent to Nok. Bob attempts to start the grapple.

1) Nok takes his AOO on Bob. If he hits, the chance to grapple is ruined. If not, Bob moves on to next step.

2) Bob makes a melee touch attack to grab Nok.

3) They make opposed grapple checks. If bob wins, he damages Nok as an unarmed strike.

4) Would go to Nok's turn, unless Bob had multiple attacks from high BAB.

Did I miss anything? I get confused by it all the time.
 

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just one thing

I only see one thing that you missed.

After Bob has "held" Nok and damaged him as with an unarmed strike he must then move into Noks space in order to maintain the grapple. This would provoke AoO's as normal if any other enemies were around. After Bob has "moved in" he and Nok are grappling.

You are correct that it would now be Noks turn unless Bob has iterative attacks.
 
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Don't forget that, while grappling, both of them don't threaten the area around them. Also, they lose their dex bonus to AC against everyone but the person they're grappling.
 

Heck, grappling is just as easy as shooting past cover! Here's a handy-dandy summary that I keep handy for just these situations:

Code:
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------------------- C L O S E   C O M B A T ------------------- 

To begin grappling, you must grab the opponent, get a hold, and 
then move in:

1) Grab the Opponent: As a standard attack, try to get a hand on 
   the defender: an unarmed touch attack. This will often provoke 
   an attack of opportunity. If that AoO does damage, then the 
   grapple attempt fails right here. You can make a grab attempt  
   in place of each attack you normally get. 

2) Get a Hold: Roll an opposed grapple check (base attack bonus + 
   strength vs. base attack bonus plus either strength or dex).
   Small characters get –4, large get +4 and so on. If you lose, 
   then that is the end of the attempt. 

3) Close In: If you do get a hold, then you move into the space 
   with your opponent and are officially grappling with them. You 
   also get to inflict the damage from a single unarmed attack on 
   the opponent as you close in. This is usually d3+str subdual 
   damage.


Fighting in Close
---------------------------------------------------------------
Once you are grappled (or grappling), then

· You can only use unarmed attacks or light weapons
· You have no threatened area.
· You lose your Dex bonus to AC against people you are not grappling.
· You cannot leave the space.
· Two weapon fighting is not possible.
· You can take no actions other than to attack, prepare an item (or 
  spell component), or try a non-somatic spell or ability.
· Doing anything complicated while grappling requires a 
  Concentration(20+) check.

On subsequent actions (after the grab and close) you can make an 
opposed grapple check as a standard attack option. You can do this 
once for each unarmed attack that you would normally get (The FAQ 
says, for monsters, to use the BAB to find the number of grapple 
checks allowed, and don’t add attacks based on number of appendages). 
For each one that you win, you can do one of the following:

1) Do unarmed damage (plus constriction damage).
2) Pin your opponent for 1 round (they are effectively paralyzed, 
   but not helpless, until just before your grapple roll next round).
3) Break a pin that someone else has on a friend of yours in this 
   same grapple.

If you are pinning someone, you can only do unarmed attacks against 
them. Other people can use weapons, and also get a +4 to hit the 
victim. You cannot attack, or try to pin someone else while pinning 
someone.


Breaking Close Combat
---------------------------------------------------------------
To get out of close combat you have to try to break the grapple as 
standard attack action. Roll either an opposed grapple check, or an 
opposed Escape Artist vs. the opponent(s) grapple check. You have to 
roll better than ALL opponents to get out of the pile. 

If you succeed, then you can still move, or do a move equivalent if 
you have actions left. Technically, you are not prone when grappled 
and so you do not have to take the time to stand up before moving.


Attacks of Opportunity
---------------------------------------------------------------
The initial grab is an unarmed melee touch attack and so may well 
provoke an attack of opportunity from your opponent. If it does, and 
the attack of opportunity inflicts damage, then that ends the 
grapple attempt.

The “close in” move is basically a 5ft step and so rarely provokes 
attacks from nearby enemies. If you charge and grapple, or move and 
grapple, then you might provoke attacks of opportunity as normal 
(for crossing threatened areas). You have to be able to move far 
enough to enter the defender’s space in order to try a grapple. Note 
that the defender does NOT get an attack of opportunity because of 
this last five feet.

The unarmed damage for closing in occurs right before the move, and 
so before any attacks that the move may cause. It is rather odd that 
a 30ft move and grapple would be resolved as a 25ft move, a grab 
check, a grapple check, and then the last 5ft of movement; but that 
is the way it works.


Improved Grab
---------------------------------------------------------------
Certain monsters have this feat and it modifies the above rules as 
follows:

.  They can start a grapple as a free action after hitting (and doing 
   damage) with a normal melee attack.

.  These creatures do not provoke an attack of opportunity for the 
   initial grab, nor do they have to roll to hit for this grab. It 
   already hit with the melee attack.

.  After the grab, the creature can do one of two things: conduct 
   the grapple normally, or conduct a “improved hold”. Both options 
   require a standard grapple check, though the creature suffers a –20 
   penalty in the case of an improved hold (I say “improved” because 
   the PHB also uses the term “hold”.).

.  If the grapple is conducted normally, the creature does NOT 
   inflict more damage when it moves in, since it already inflicted 
   damage right before the free grab. But it does add “constrict” 
   damage at this time if applicable.

.  On subsequent actions, more grapple checks can be made (up to one 
   per attack, number of attacks based on BAB only). A success deals 
   damage equal to the initial melee attack, plus any constriction 
   damage that they creature may have. If the check fails, then the 
   victim is still grappled, but takes no damage. These future 
   grapple checks can result in special effects (like being swallowed) 
   regardless of whether it is a standard check or an improved hold 
   check.

An “improved” hold has the following characteristics:

1) Unless otherwise stated, this grab only works against opponents 
   smaller than the attacker.
2) It uses one appendage to maintain the hold.
3) The victim is drawn into the creature’s space, though no attacks 
   of opportunity arise from this.
4) The creature is not considered grappled itself: the creature does 
   not move into the victim’s space, does not lose Dex, and can still 
   conduct melee combat, and move, as normal.
5) Improved holds incur a –20 penalty on grapple checks.
6) Escaping from an improved hold is the same as escaping from a 
   normal grapple, though the holder is at –20 on the check.

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Here's something to think about - because it's been used to great effect in the game i DM, and i'll be d*mned if i can't see much rules wise to stop it, but i'd like to find a counter to it because it sucks to have a lvl 3 monk take out a lvl 9 fighter with it.

Lvl 3 monk, flurry of blows, improved grapple feat. It comes to his round, says he going to flurry of blows, so first attack he does the touch attack (imp. grapple feat means he does not incure an AoO), then starts the grapple as a free action (another gift of the imp. grapple feat), gets the hold, and finishes everything off and ends up in a grapple. Second attack of the flurry of blows he Pins the guy. Whoever is up after him ties the BBEG up and blammo, encounter is ended.

If he misses with the first attack he ussually hits with the second attack, and then goes for the pin the next round, either way my BBEG ends up hog-tied or taking massive damage from the party hacking them up while they are grappled.

This seems to be a more then effective way to take care of almost anything quickly and effectively. Or am i missing something...
 

One thing that still confuses me is the number of grapple attempts that a person can make in a round. Is it always based on BAB only?

Tonight we had a monk with the Improved grapple feat who wanted to do this:
1) Melee attack.
2) If that hits, do his free grapple attempt.
3) If that works, then try to pin.

Now, he is 5th level and so only gets 1 attack BAB-wise. So the above would take two rounds right? (Even though he can Flurry for two actualy melee attack in a round.)

If he were 6th level, then could he do two grapple checks in a round? Or does he have to use the standard iteratives (rather than monk iteratives) in order to get that second check?

Sure would be easier if you could just do a grapple check as a melee attack...
 

Looks legal to me. I have a hard time believing that a monk can really grapple everything that the monk encounters. This is a useful combat option, but surely far from a blanket combat tactic.
 

It's probably not viable right now, but you could always have Contingency on your BBEG triggered by a grapple and casting true strike. This will give him +20 to escape the grapple. Of course, by that level, you could just Contingency a Teleport spell on your opponent or some other nasty measure, but it might be worth the look on your monk's face when the old wizard blows through his grapple attempt almost as an afterthought.

Hmmm... if there's a Reflex save Instant Death effect, you could wait until the monk grapples you and then cast it, metamagicked with Still Spell. IIRC, the monk wouldn't get his bonus to his Ref save since he's grappled....

I'll shut up now :)
 

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