How have CRPGs influenced RPGs?

[Kahuna Burger]

Note that this concept has existed in D&D since 1974, pre-dating computer RPGs that used the same concept by a year or two. In retrospect, this facet of computer RPGs was almost certainly influenced by D&D, not vice-versa.

um, I don't know if we are talking about the same thing. I don't like x/day abilities such as the barbarian rage or the druid's wild shape and like that such things are absent in crpgs.

Obviously abilities that aren't x/day have been present in every game invented, so I don't see how crpgs could be copying the concept.

 

[jdrakeh]

um, I don't know if we are talking about the same thing.

Ah. I misread your original post. That said, X/day abilites (most commonly spell abilities) are extremely commonplace in early CRPGs, most of which were actually based on D&D. You don't see a lot of that anymore, but that's because CRPGs have moved away from emulating certain things about table-top RPGs, while they've moved closer to emulating others.

 

[Zander]

D&D has impacted games far more than games have impacted D&D.

True. This book is in part a record of how RPGs, and D&D in particular, have influenced CRPGs.

 

[CarlZog]

I suspect the biggest impact computer games have had on the rpg hobby, at least in the last 10 years or so, is to bring new players to the table.

I've read numerous posts on this and other forums from younger players whose interest in RPGs was spawned by earlier experience with computer games.

Carl

 

[Buttercup]

I think that generally the two influence each other in a symbiotic relationship.

However, the degree to which individual games (tabletop or crpg) or individual groups of players are infulenced, and whether that infuence is for good or ill is just that...individual.

For instance, I wanted to play D&D since my undergrad days, but never found anyone to play with who didn't scare me. Years later I started playing BG and BG2, and from there I started playing PBP games. Then 3e came out, and I haven't played nearly as many computer games since. On the other hand, two of my players have *never* played any sort of computer game beyond minesweeper. Two others have only played crpgs minimally.

My homebrew worlds have been influenced by some crpgs. I've used maps, art and plot concepts from various crpgs over the years, most notably the Might & Magic games (as opposed to HoMM, which I never found all that inspiring). Now that Wilderlands and Blackmoor are available, it's easy to see how the MM games and others were influenced by D&D.

 

[Numion]

I got one new player because of BG2. So I guess the overal effect is positive.

 

[edemaitre]

CRPGS and pen-and-paper RPGs

In my experience, the symbiotic relationship between traditional, pen-and-paper, face-to-face role-playing games and computer games has been both good and bad. As a Game Master, I've found CRPGs helpful in visualizing and describing certain monsters and spell effects. Thanks to videogames and the success of the "Harry Potter" and "Lord of the Rings" movies, even new role-players are now familiar with fantasy archetypes.

The downside is that CRPGs can be more addictive, involving one person's attention span far longer than is possible to schedule an afternoon and evening's dice-and-pizza game for a group of 20- and 30-somethings. The tendency toward quick gratification in terms of leveling up and combat simulation over interpersonal interaction can also alter prospective role-players' expectations and approaches to teamwork and character/campaign development.

Finally, one gripe: How come it's cool for your average American to play videogames (which are almost on par in pop culture with organized sports, NASCAR, pro wrestling and celebrity poker in terms of popularity and social acceptability), but pen-and-paper RPG players are still considered geeks? Most of the players I've known since college have been well-adjusted, gainfully employed professionals who have significant others and varied interests, not antisocial, overintellectual misfits.

 

[the Jester]

I think CCGs have led to better balancing and tighter mechanics for rpgs.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

I think there's been a postitive impact

Quest design

Pretty much everything I learned about sidequests I learned from CRPGs. What was cool and what wasn't cool. For instance, most players think Fed Ex quests (delivery quests) are kind of boring, but you do need them early in the game to introduce the PCs to new areas. It forces them to explore and the tiny exp you get out of a typical Fed Ex quest is a huge deal at 1st level. Hunting quests are more exciting, but you can't have too many or things get dull. What players like to see are quests that affect part of the game world, even for a little bit of time. The advantage of pen-and-paper is that you can make that impact permenant. I think this was best done in the Shackled City campaign. I won't spoil anything, but the map change is really cool and that's the kind of thing I think a lot of players like to see.

Magic Items

This is a lesson I don't think the pen-and-paper community has really picked up on. At least not the d20 guys. You can't fine tune a magic item in the core rules. Also, it's crazy expensive to add on flaws to magic items. How about a greataxe that is considered magic with no bonus to hit, does +1d6 fire damage, but imposes a -2 will save? That's a great low level magic item. Is it better than a +1 sword? The answer is "Maybe" and that's the kind of answer I like to see in magic items. I want my players to sit down and make a choice about loot. Magic items tend to have a lot more variables associated with them in CRPGs.

NPCs

The nature of a CRPG brought forth the idea of telling a story not about the players, but about the NPCs. For example Bauldur's Gate 2 was about Jon Irenicus' fall from grace and his twisted attempt to restore it by force. The players were basically nothing more than an involved audience. You need that kind of storytelling when you can't control who the PCs are. That's an ability a DM needs to involve players. Of course you can go too far and accidentally overshadow the PCs, but you still need to be able to get a story out.

Balance

CRPGs made it clear the importance of game balance. Look at the old 1e and 2e experience point tables. For some reason the wizard at the low-mid-level range advances very fast, especially when compared to a fighter. That's nuts. The ranger was a great class in 2e and to qualify for it you had to roll really good ability scores, so you already had an advantage. That's nuts. Wizards progressed in spell power while fighters' hit points leveled off. That's nuts. These problems became a lot more clear in computer environment because normally the DM fudges things around to cover up these things. A computer is a lot more unforgiving and the need for game balance becomes a lot more clear.

So, yeah, computer games rock!

 

[Kuld]

I believe that the Computer games have brought more people to the gaming table. For instance, last night I ended up drinking with my neighbor (just by chance actually) and he has been playing many computer RPGs throughout the years and when I told him I played D&D he was completely intrigued. So, I explained to him how it worked and he seems really anxious to play.