D&D 4E How have PCs died in your 4e games?
- Thread starter Rechan
- Start date
Mephistopheles
First Post
While 4E has without a doubt made characters tougher than ever out of the gate I think the mortality rates are still determined largely by the same factors that they always were: the players; the DM; the style of the game.
I'm playing in two games driven by story - one at 9th level and the other at 7th - and neither of them have seen a single PC death. There have been a couple of close calls but the DMs usually ease off to keep things rolling.
The third game, however, has a more old school feel to it. The DM of this game, currently at 4th-5th level, builds difficult encounters and for the most part has the enemies use their abilities effectively, but pulls punches on occasion. From memory there have been about half-a-dozen PC deaths in that campaign - two of them mine - and a number of close calls. Even though the combats in this campaign are often difficult I'd still say most of the deaths were avoidable and the majority came down to the players making poor choices or taking too long to realise a fight was too difficult for the party.
This last point is one subtle way that I feel 4E can be more deadly than previous editions in and of itself. Because just about everything has buckets of hit points and both players and enemies tend to hit more often than not it can take the players too long to realise that their PCs are outmatched - at which point the PCs either go all in and start spamming dailies or attempt to withdraw.
I'm playing in two games driven by story - one at 9th level and the other at 7th - and neither of them have seen a single PC death. There have been a couple of close calls but the DMs usually ease off to keep things rolling.
The third game, however, has a more old school feel to it. The DM of this game, currently at 4th-5th level, builds difficult encounters and for the most part has the enemies use their abilities effectively, but pulls punches on occasion. From memory there have been about half-a-dozen PC deaths in that campaign - two of them mine - and a number of close calls. Even though the combats in this campaign are often difficult I'd still say most of the deaths were avoidable and the majority came down to the players making poor choices or taking too long to realise a fight was too difficult for the party.
This last point is one subtle way that I feel 4E can be more deadly than previous editions in and of itself. Because just about everything has buckets of hit points and both players and enemies tend to hit more often than not it can take the players too long to realise that their PCs are outmatched - at which point the PCs either go all in and start spamming dailies or attempt to withdraw.
I had a foolish human wizard wander off in KoTSF, and get ganked, from 2 criticals!, by a halfling and his triple sling-stone ability. Humiliation!
Same character, post resurrection, got cleaved in half by one of his companions after stealing some party treasure. That led to an all in party brawl.
3 out of 7 players survived. That was fun.
Same character, post resurrection, got cleaved in half by one of his companions after stealing some party treasure. That led to an all in party brawl.
3 out of 7 players survived. That was fun.
Mephistopheles
First Post
I see that I didn't quite answer the original question so here is an addendum to my last post.
For the game that has seen a few deaths here are the details:
1. At level 1, the rogue made a stealth check blunder and was quickly mauled by a pack of undead.
2. At level 2, while fighting a young black dragon, the paladin (my character) and bard fought valiantly in melee with ranged assistance from the wizard while the ranger ran around like a headless chicken after picking up a piece of loot from the dragon's meagre hoard. When the party began repositioning to withdraw the dragon responded by blocking the exit: the paladin and bard were unable to get out but the ranger and wizard made a run for it. The ranger was melting from ongoing acid damage and didn't make it far before starting a new career as a puddle, which left the wizard as the sole escapee to tell the tale. Frustratingly we found out after the battle that we had the dragon down to 30 something hit points - we likely would have been victorious if the ranger hadn't gone insane.
3. At level 3, while fighting a mixed group of gnolls (I think) that we had separated into two groups, the warlock (my character) was holding off some sort of witch doctor and a couple of his cronies on one front while the warden and barbarian tried to clear out a couple of gnolls on the other side before coming to the aid of my warlock. We were caught a little off guard as there were more gnolls than we had thought at first, but my warlock made a good show of it and probably would have pulled through if he could have held out another round. Having only three players for that session and a composition of one defender and two strikers made for tough going.
The other death happened in a session that I missed.
For the game that has seen a few deaths here are the details:
1. At level 1, the rogue made a stealth check blunder and was quickly mauled by a pack of undead.
2. At level 2, while fighting a young black dragon, the paladin (my character) and bard fought valiantly in melee with ranged assistance from the wizard while the ranger ran around like a headless chicken after picking up a piece of loot from the dragon's meagre hoard. When the party began repositioning to withdraw the dragon responded by blocking the exit: the paladin and bard were unable to get out but the ranger and wizard made a run for it. The ranger was melting from ongoing acid damage and didn't make it far before starting a new career as a puddle, which left the wizard as the sole escapee to tell the tale. Frustratingly we found out after the battle that we had the dragon down to 30 something hit points - we likely would have been victorious if the ranger hadn't gone insane.
3. At level 3, while fighting a mixed group of gnolls (I think) that we had separated into two groups, the warlock (my character) was holding off some sort of witch doctor and a couple of his cronies on one front while the warden and barbarian tried to clear out a couple of gnolls on the other side before coming to the aid of my warlock. We were caught a little off guard as there were more gnolls than we had thought at first, but my warlock made a good show of it and probably would have pulled through if he could have held out another round. Having only three players for that session and a composition of one defender and two strikers made for tough going.
The other death happened in a session that I missed.
xXElaDriNDrizZztXx
First Post
We actively try to kill our characters. Then again, we want to try other characters and roles instead of being the same thing for 20 levels. It's a fantasy game, being "attached" to a toon and having it die should not lead to depression or anger.
Pro Wrestling and DnD are scripted. It's entertainment.
Bodies have been battered, necks have been broken, careers ended in an instant. Please, don't try this at home.
Pro Wrestling and DnD are scripted. It's entertainment.
Bodies have been battered, necks have been broken, careers ended in an instant. Please, don't try this at home.
PC durability is one of my favorite things about 4E. It gives you a chance to determine the style of how you want to play. If a DM is willing to pull punches and only punish outright stupidity, death can be fairly rare. If the group wants to go old school however, there's plenty of ways to make a party feel the pain. We like things a little more old school, so I DM with the gloves off, and we see PC death on a fairly regular basis, usually every two to four gaming session.
The most common cause is the fact that we have 8 PCs, that leaves me a lot of monsters to focus fire on a squishy when I get the chance. Not to many PCs can survive for long when 8 bad guys are taking turns pounding on them.
Poor tactics is another frequent cause. We're thinking of renaming "Come and Get It" to "the Tank Dies Again," because our great weapon fighter sometimes gets a little overzealous in how much fight he wants to pick, and a number of PCs hate a particular gnome wizard who gets a little too happy with his area of effect dailies.
As a DM, the simple fact that I'm willing to be mean every once and a while increases the game's lethality. The occasional coup de grace on an unconscious PC has ensured my players never leave someone on the ground making death saves, and clever use of terrain to split the party has allowed me to separate the party and then gank a PC out of reach of the others.
Last, the simple fact that we strictly enforce the only three death saves a day rule, and that I don't allow a five minute adventuring day ensures that any end of the day encounter will always feel pretty dangerous to at least one PC. This one's important, I honestly don't see how more PCs don't die from this rule in other people's games. It's claimed a lot of PCs in mine.
All in all though, I think 4E got it about right. Single PC death can be fairly easy to achieve, but a TPK usually only happens due to poor encounter design, horrible luck, or poor PC tactics. We only came close once, and the group was able to survive by stuffing bodies in a haversack and fleeing as the defenders held a choke point. That fight definitely had an old school feel to it.
The most common cause is the fact that we have 8 PCs, that leaves me a lot of monsters to focus fire on a squishy when I get the chance. Not to many PCs can survive for long when 8 bad guys are taking turns pounding on them.
Poor tactics is another frequent cause. We're thinking of renaming "Come and Get It" to "the Tank Dies Again," because our great weapon fighter sometimes gets a little overzealous in how much fight he wants to pick, and a number of PCs hate a particular gnome wizard who gets a little too happy with his area of effect dailies.
As a DM, the simple fact that I'm willing to be mean every once and a while increases the game's lethality. The occasional coup de grace on an unconscious PC has ensured my players never leave someone on the ground making death saves, and clever use of terrain to split the party has allowed me to separate the party and then gank a PC out of reach of the others.
Last, the simple fact that we strictly enforce the only three death saves a day rule, and that I don't allow a five minute adventuring day ensures that any end of the day encounter will always feel pretty dangerous to at least one PC. This one's important, I honestly don't see how more PCs don't die from this rule in other people's games. It's claimed a lot of PCs in mine.
All in all though, I think 4E got it about right. Single PC death can be fairly easy to achieve, but a TPK usually only happens due to poor encounter design, horrible luck, or poor PC tactics. We only came close once, and the group was able to survive by stuffing bodies in a haversack and fleeing as the defenders held a choke point. That fight definitely had an old school feel to it.
The only PC death I've been around was based solely on storyline. The DM had a couple years pass in between a couple of our sessions and as the beginning of a new story-arc started the session off with a message being delivered to our characters telling them that our cleric had been killed. (It was his PC, so there were no hard feelings with any of the players). I've never actually seen a death in combat before, though we've come close enough to scare us.
OMG! You killed five of your players? I hope I won't ever meet you
Xeterog
Explorer
TPK (6 players) by Irontooth, but not the normal way..they actually ran from the encounter..but did not flee all the way back to town. Instead, they decide to camp and try to ambush the pursuit that was bound to come. So, Irontooth gathered up some re-inforcements and defeated the party again..They almost had him down, but missed him the last 2 rounds of the fight completely, while he took two players out per turn at that point.
Later, in thunderspire, the Tiefling Warlock (probably level 5 or 6) finds himself in a room of mirrors and all his companinons have been teleported away. The Warlock closes his eyes and finds himself behind a curtain--with 2 undead waiting for him...he died relatively quickly..
Last death was the paladin in Pyramid of Shadows. Got grabbed by terrain (bones) near the end (so he must have been about 8 or 9th level) that did damage every turn..he could not escape (he's a CHA paladin) and the rest of the party was on the other side of the room.
Since then, no deaths. Tho I was nice this past weekend and did not try to kill the Cleric when I possibly could have (final battle of E2)...
Later, in thunderspire, the Tiefling Warlock (probably level 5 or 6) finds himself in a room of mirrors and all his companinons have been teleported away. The Warlock closes his eyes and finds himself behind a curtain--with 2 undead waiting for him...he died relatively quickly..
Last death was the paladin in Pyramid of Shadows. Got grabbed by terrain (bones) near the end (so he must have been about 8 or 9th level) that did damage every turn..he could not escape (he's a CHA paladin) and the rest of the party was on the other side of the room.
Since then, no deaths. Tho I was nice this past weekend and did not try to kill the Cleric when I possibly could have (final battle of E2)...
Xris Robin
First Post
Because there is no such rule. It's three death saves before a rest, not before an extended rest. Short rests also reset it.
AD6_gamerati_skyscraper
Recent & Upcoming Releases
-
April 16 2024 -
May 31 2024 -
June 3 2024 -
June 4 2024 -
June 18 2024 -
July 16 2024 -
September 17 2024 -
October 1 2024 -
November 12 2024 -
February 18 2025
