How High Level Should the Core Book Go?

[kitsune9]

I'm in the 36 camp. Nostalgia and stuff.

 

[The Shadow]

This would be exactly my preference. Make 1-10 cover the power level of E6 in 3e and 11-20 the next six or so levels.

Oooh. I could get behind this. And then anything beyond 20 is for Epic stuff.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

I don't have a preference on an exact number. My view is that if you have N levels, and a bunch of them have large swaths of empty space or "filler" material, then you have too many. Contrawise, if individual levels radically change the character, you probably have too few. Those are, of course, subjective measurements.

My guess is that anything below 10 will induce class cramping, and anything above 30 will inevitably be bloated, but perhaps that's just prior experience biasing my answer.

Whatever the number, I want a minimum of a sixth of the levels, and would prefer around a third of them, in a simple core ruleset.

I feel a d20 resolution mechanic works most simply and elegantly wth a 10-level system.

Sometimes, in my crazier moments, I envision a D&D-ish game that only goes to level 10, but does it multiple times. That is, if you max out at level 10 in a given "tier", you have the option to keep all your current abilities, but redefine what new ones can do, and start over. So you go from a 10th level "standard" wizard to a 1st level "heroic" wizard who can do some nifty extra stuff with his 1st level standard wizard abilities. He gains 2nd level in the new tier, and can now do this nifty stuff with those abilities. This is effectively open-ended, only capped by how gonzo you are willing to go.

Perhaps the Burning Wheel black/gray/white distinctions are prompting this thought. With D&D, it would be pretty neat to use the various prismatic spells as the designations. You have to get all the way to "Purple" or so before you can do a "Wish" in the old school format.

 

[Mercurius]

20 makes the most sense for the core game. 20 is iconic, especially given that the game is based upon a d20 roll and ability scores generally range up to 20. Then put 21+ level "epic" tier in an optional supplement and do it right: rules for citadel and kingdom building, extra-planar options, etc.

 

[CM]

My initial gut reaction was 20, with an add-on supplement for epic play, only handled a little better than 3e's ELH.

Gaining levels is fun, so I wouldn't really be happy with a limit of 10 or 15. I guess I am in the minority according to that poll Stormonu linked. The last 3 games I've run are/were all multi-year affairs that went to epic levels (20th in 3e and currently 18/30 in 4e).

Edit: Now that I think about it, maybe that's why there isn't more agreement that 3e DM prep is lengthy at high levels--nobody did it!

 

[Mark CMG]

Sometimes, in my crazier moments, I envision a D&D-ish game that only goes to level 10, but does it multiple times.

Some systems with greater than ten levels of play cover this through scaling the task resolution so that a challenge at lower levels can still be used at higher levels, perhaps allowing some challenges to be somewhat easier but not a foregone conclusion. But this is patching the system to account for the range of a d20 being static. One alternative I prefer is to granulate each of the ten levels, so that being at a level is longer but incrementally more interesting. Rather than having the plateau for each level come but once, at the end/beginning of the level, milestones within the level confer benefits. This is an alternative to a system that stretches the leveling to say 20 or 30 or beyond with benefits coming strictly at each leveling up.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

One alternative I prefer is to granulate each of the ten levels, so that being at a level is longer but incrementally more interesting. Rather than having the plateau for each level come but once, at the end/beginning of the level, milestones within the level confer benefits. This is an alternative to a system that stretches the leveling to say 20 or 30 or beyond with benefits coming strictly at each leveling up.

That works too. It's all just packaging anyway. So whatever works best for the thing being packaged, is alright by me. The important thing is that after some amount of measurable struggle, risk, challenge, etc. a character gets some new, stronger, better capabilities. If someone tells me what is put forth to get those capabilities, and what they are, I'll have a stronger opinion on the packaging.

 

[Minigiant]

30

I want to play level 1, level 5, level 15, OR level 20.

Why can't I start a former hero who can't miss attacks against goblins because I am that good an hit on a 2?

Please Working Epic D&D.