How I Stopped Worrying and Learned To Love Standard Plusses
- Thread starter comrade raoul
- Start date
1) is a bit unsatisfactory, as this notion of Weapons of Legacy is (from memory) not really present in DragonLance.Rhiarion said:
2) is very unsatisfactory, because while Sturm's companions might be awed, Sturms' player's companions (ie the other players at your table) will probably be irritated.
A third solution would be to let each of them have a comparable ability for their PC - not necessarily an item, but perhaps a supply of additional APs, an extra class Power, or whatnot, to ensure a degree of balance at the table.
re: Secondary items being too powerful.
I really think posters worried should look at Magic Item Compendium (there is a reason why it is rated as one of the best books on the general forums
) and this was considered one of the "preview" books for 4E.
Take the Hands slot for example. For pretty much all of the non-heavy armour wearing classes, gauntlets of dexterity are a must have. Hell, even with some heavy armour classes, the benefit of an increase in dex is still so good that they take it.
If permanent stat boosters are eliminated though, the difference in options between a guy wearing no gloves guy versus guys with brute gloves, Ghoul gauntlets and Casting gloves will be MUCH, MUCH less than no gloves guy versus gauntlets of Dexterity +2 (to say nothing of the +6 version).
I know this is a 3.5 book but you can see where Mearls et al are coming from when they talk about secondary items and options and the effect on the math.
I really think posters worried should look at Magic Item Compendium (there is a reason why it is rated as one of the best books on the general forums
) and this was considered one of the "preview" books for 4E.Take the Hands slot for example. For pretty much all of the non-heavy armour wearing classes, gauntlets of dexterity are a must have. Hell, even with some heavy armour classes, the benefit of an increase in dex is still so good that they take it.
If permanent stat boosters are eliminated though, the difference in options between a guy wearing no gloves guy versus guys with brute gloves, Ghoul gauntlets and Casting gloves will be MUCH, MUCH less than no gloves guy versus gauntlets of Dexterity +2 (to say nothing of the +6 version).
I know this is a 3.5 book but you can see where Mearls et al are coming from when they talk about secondary items and options and the effect on the math.
pkt77242
Explorer
4E is about POL. I would imagine that in POL campaigns most people are just struggling to survive not opening magic shops. In my 4e campaign there might be one or two small magic shops in extremely large cities that are the beacons of light but even there the magic items will be really expensive and it is more of simple items a few scrolls, a couple of potions. And I might not have any magic shops and that would fit nice and neat.
If you are playing in a POL then most of the magic items are either ancient ones (from the bygone era of good which happen to be in the ruins) or are in someones hands being used. Not sitting in a shop waiting to be bought. It is very easy to rationalize magic shops out of existence in a POL setting, having magic shops doesn't make sense. There problem solved neatly and logically.
Sean
If you are playing in a POL then most of the magic items are either ancient ones (from the bygone era of good which happen to be in the ruins) or are in someones hands being used. Not sitting in a shop waiting to be bought. It is very easy to rationalize magic shops out of existence in a POL setting, having magic shops doesn't make sense. There problem solved neatly and logically.
Sean
OTOH, if you wanted to go for a "realistic" approach, you don't completely eliminate the magic store, you modify it. Otherwise, you're eliminating a chunk of realistic commerce from your fantasy economy.
While many treasures pass directly from person to person, some get lost or sold. People find things and sell them- like the Dead Sea Scrolls. People outgrow their possessions- like a former Cub Scout who upgrades from his organizational blade to a nice Spyderco. How many great guitarists found their first axe in a pawn shop?
The key is that people may not know that what they sell (or buy) is magic.
So, no "One Stop Magic Shop"- what to replace it with?
Much like the real world, minor things such as potions should be available in such a store- be it an apothecary, alchemist's, or the dwelling of a hedge wizard at the edge of town. Depending upon the local social climate, visiting such a place might be risky...after all, who wants to be associated with a witch who consorts with demons?
Other items would be found among mundane items of their kind. A magic sword would be found at a weaponsmith's. If he knows its magic, he'll charge for it. If he doesn't know its magic, probably none of his customers do either. Of course, without the right skills or spells, neither will the PCs. Selling/buying a magic weapon (unknowingly) is even more likely if local laws restrict the right to bear arms to a select few. Holding onto a sword without the right to bear one would be foolish- better to sell it off for a few gold and eat for a fortnight. (On a certain level, this turns shopping in town into a treasure hunt in and of itself.)
Still other items should be in the hands of private collectors, armories, guilds, churches or schools. Access to those- either by loan or purchase- would be granted via connections made in game, PrCls, or perhaps an adventure like a raid on a merchant's summer house...
And, of course, this keeps open the possibility of a plotline involving the PCs getting defrauded by a dishonest seller, or finding out that the Church's relic that they were entrusted to use was just a "wallhanger." (Again, with RW analogs- how many young men have died because a shaman told them they were protected by magic that simply didn't work?)
Last edited:
Lizard said:
The funny thing about that is my reaction wasn't "That's so WoW" but "Why the hell are they still ripping off Tolkein?". In the novels (both LotR and Simarillion) it is mentioned that the rings of power are ALL level based so to speak. It is mentioned in the "other work" that Gandalf's Ring of Fire wouldn't work with a regular old Man as of the LotR era but would require a Man of the early ages as they were more mighty.
TwinBahamut
First Post
This sounds right. After all, Frodo could never use the power of the One Ring since he was too low in level. The One Ring was not a ring of invisibility, it was a "ring of rule the world". If anything, the invisibility and all other effects of the ring on Frodo were the cursed side effects of his inability to control the ring at all. Meanwhile, in the hands of someone like Gandalf or the Elf Queen (high level characters), the ring would give them enough power to completely surpass Sauron. Frodo could safely transport the ring in part because his own low level would protect him from being tempted by the ring's true power.AllisterH said:
While it was a ring to rule the world, it, like many magic items, had lesser powers. Its invisibility was perfectly controllable- put on, take off, Miyagi-san.
If JRRT had written his story as if this particular rule applied, neither Frodo nor Bilbo would have been able to use the Invisibility effect at all.
Non-Invisible Hobbits = Dead Hobbits in a short, short story.
Elphilm
Explorer
However, the One Ring was an artifact of greater power than a magic ring. Nenya, Nerya and Vilya are more comparable to the magic rings in 4E - they would, supposedly, have no lesser effects if someone like Frodo were to put one on, and would only be usable by someone of sufficient power.Dannyalcatraz said:
