How Important is Magic to Dungeons and Dragons? - Third Edition vs Fourth Edition
- Thread starter Hexmage-EN
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Hexmage-EN
Legend
I sort of regret starting this thread now. For one thing I've done some thinking and I'm a lot happier with how magic is done in 4E than I was initially.
As for Martial powers being difficult to rationalize, I agree to an extent. "Come and Get It" is the only power I've seen that I outright disallow in my games. It makes sense to me in regards to challenging warriors and unintelligent monsters, but I don't think an intelligent mastermind should be forced to attack if he's within 15 feet of a Fighter.
Most other Martial powers are okay to me; a few of them just require a bit of metagaming, and I feel it's worth it if it gives Martial characters more to do. Also, not all mundane powers that force movement are bad: skilled fighters have ways of tricking people into thinking their guard is down when really it's just a ploy to catch their enemy off-guard.
Besides, there are things in previous editions of D&D that are difficult to rationalize. For example, how exactly do Medium-sized characters armed with swords and warhammers effectively attack Gargantuan and Colossal creatures that they only come up to the ankles of?
As for Martial powers being difficult to rationalize, I agree to an extent. "Come and Get It" is the only power I've seen that I outright disallow in my games. It makes sense to me in regards to challenging warriors and unintelligent monsters, but I don't think an intelligent mastermind should be forced to attack if he's within 15 feet of a Fighter.
Most other Martial powers are okay to me; a few of them just require a bit of metagaming, and I feel it's worth it if it gives Martial characters more to do. Also, not all mundane powers that force movement are bad: skilled fighters have ways of tricking people into thinking their guard is down when really it's just a ploy to catch their enemy off-guard.
Besides, there are things in previous editions of D&D that are difficult to rationalize. For example, how exactly do Medium-sized characters armed with swords and warhammers effectively attack Gargantuan and Colossal creatures that they only come up to the ankles of?
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Scribble
First Post
So you're saying that Raven's subjective feeling is that all abilities are magic, and since all characters have abilities, then all characters use magic?
I remember argumnets about whether or not those skills harm roleplaying, but not about what they said about the world... But maybe I missed soemthing.
Some people just happen to like some things, and maybe even better when they're labeled "D&D"; at any rate, they don't particularly mind razing and paving over what used to be there and replacing it with something "modern". Other folks prefer the old game (at least as a common frame of reference, even if they change it up for a campaign), and as push has come to shove they'll take it by whatever name.
Magic, verisimilitude, role-playing, freedom, literature versus video and comic books ... all sorts of things figure in the equation.
Anyway, if the magical-or-whatever baseline in 4E is groovy but one wants some stuff with a bit more "sense of wonder", then I think it should be easy to tip in with magic items -- especially if one expands horizons beyond what "item" usually means. There can be magical places, times, creatures, deeds, etc..
If a wand of lightning bolts or the like is too old hat, then how about a container for storms? First, you've got to brave an actual storm ... but you can "suck it up" into a bag or something and let it out later.
How about a seed that when planted grows in moments into a mighty tree?
Maybe there are stones that "sing" each time a certain comet returns. There's a cryptic account of the last babbling words of a Woolly Man slave who upon hearing the song went into a seizure and died. To find one who speaks the tongue of Woolly Ones these days calls for a long and perilous journey into unmapped lands. (So long as it's not terribly anticlimactic, the solution of the mystery should be all the more marvelous for the effort needed to discover it.)
Magic, verisimilitude, role-playing, freedom, literature versus video and comic books ... all sorts of things figure in the equation.
Anyway, if the magical-or-whatever baseline in 4E is groovy but one wants some stuff with a bit more "sense of wonder", then I think it should be easy to tip in with magic items -- especially if one expands horizons beyond what "item" usually means. There can be magical places, times, creatures, deeds, etc..
If a wand of lightning bolts or the like is too old hat, then how about a container for storms? First, you've got to brave an actual storm ... but you can "suck it up" into a bag or something and let it out later.
How about a seed that when planted grows in moments into a mighty tree?
Maybe there are stones that "sing" each time a certain comet returns. There's a cryptic account of the last babbling words of a Woolly Man slave who upon hearing the song went into a seizure and died. To find one who speaks the tongue of Woolly Ones these days calls for a long and perilous journey into unmapped lands. (So long as it's not terribly anticlimactic, the solution of the mystery should be all the more marvelous for the effort needed to discover it.)
Raven Crowking
First Post
Scribble
First Post
Ok... Then end of discussion I guess.
Scribble
First Post
Not sure when it will happen. I also have plans for a low/no arcane (and possibly divine) campaign, in which the only "magic items" are the artifacts.
So many campaigns, so little time.
Raven Crowking
First Post
There are statements which are wholly subjective, statements that may be objectively true (but cannot known to be objectively true), and a great many statements which are neither wholly subjective nor objectively true.
"All abilities are magic, and magic is available to all" is part of the implied setting of 4e. This statement cannot be demonstrated to be objectively true, but neither is it wholly subjective.
Anyone who disagrees with that statement may not be wholly wrong (depending upon his criteria for disagreement), but neither is he wholly right. Thus far, within this discussion at least, no criteria for disagreement have been raised that offer more than wishful thinking and/or intentional disregard of the factors that arise from this implied portion of the 4e setting.
RC
RefinedBean
First Post
That's certainly a lot of words to say that fantasy game mechanics are interpreted differently by different people.
What criteria do we have to provide to "prove" to you a Fighter, swinging a sword, is not magical?
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