How Important is Magic to Dungeons and Dragons? - Third Edition vs Fourth Edition
- Thread starter Hexmage-EN
- Start date
Bumbles: Yes, there is the factor of taking a game for what it is. OD&D was not designed to be a "Tolkien game" (or precisely to model any other particular work of fiction). On the other hand, the concluding advice that "the best way is to decide how you would like it to be, and then make it just that way" was pretty darned easy to follow. With the games from Wizards, that becomes problematic both because of the burden of rules and because of the philosophy that makes such a burden an asset in the first place. Had I bought the line that "it's just the same", I would have had no incentive to buy the 4E books; I already have books for "the old thing". However, as for instance in critiquing Peter Jackson's cinematic trilogy, the invocation of "a name to conjure with" necessarily brings along some baggage of expectations.
Why would someone do that when the casting system was based on a different fantasy world, not Tolkien's? Why wouldn't they also say that is not how Yoda does it?
Because people would rather play Gandalf than a character I can't name from an obscure series of novels few people have actually read?
It was just an example of people not liking the fluff implied by the mechanics of older editions. It is a very very Very old debate. The very first fan letter published in the original Dragon magazine was probably griping about Vancian Magic, with the editor saying "Please, for the love of Pelor who hasn't been created yet, please stop complaining about this."
Imaro
Legend
But I thought the mechanics didn't imply fluff in 4e... so how is this the same argument?
Its not, it is a comment on a random observation that some one just jumped in with.
Your regularly scheduled arguments will resume shortly.
Although the way this thread has been wandering about amybe this is the next scheduled argument.
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You'd have to be more specific. As awesome as I am, I'm not actually argueing every point in existance personally.
I any case, implied was the wrong word. The official fluff for prior editions is that wizards would forget spells after they cast them, and then they had to re-memorize them. Legions of players felt this was stupid, and lots of other people just didn't like the "fire and forget" mechanics. 3rd edition kept the mechanics, but tweaked the official fluff to say that wizards instead "prepared" spells beforehand, and then finished casting them in combat situations.
You could have described spell-casting the same way in 2nd edition, or you could have come up with your own explanation. Fluff is malleable.
There has always been a divide between players who believe every little bit of mechanical gear turning has to track precisely to in-game events, and those who keep some distance between the two.
Edit:
I bow to your superior question answering skills, kind sir.
I'm sadly easy to divert into rambling about 2nd edition splatbooks. Anyone want to talk about the Complete Ninja's Handbook?
Emirikol
Adventurer
After running a campaign using 3.5 to do a CONAN lower-magic campaign, I realized that you used to be able to do a lower-magic game. Now, I'm not so sure. The game has turned into...uh...something else. Does "magic" even exist now?
[grumble on]Our 4e games have pretty much just turned into dice-rolling math-practice now and it seems irrelevant even whatever the original themes of the game even were. My players seem to be having fun trying out new stuff, but as the DM, I'm tired of being a human abacus..again..it doesnt' even feel like magic has any purpose because afaiac, everything feels like a 1.0/2.0/3.0 spellcaster now (and takes just as long..if not longer because of all the petty modifiers, adding, and extraneous post-digested foodstuffs).
I think magic isn't important to the game as much is it is important for players to feel like anything's possible (i.e. without limits to their choices) in some campaigns/groups/opinions..hence now we have 'martial magic.'
jh
www.hafnerchiropractic.com
..
[grumble on]Our 4e games have pretty much just turned into dice-rolling math-practice now and it seems irrelevant even whatever the original themes of the game even were. My players seem to be having fun trying out new stuff, but as the DM, I'm tired of being a human abacus..again..it doesnt' even feel like magic has any purpose because afaiac, everything feels like a 1.0/2.0/3.0 spellcaster now (and takes just as long..if not longer because of all the petty modifiers, adding, and extraneous post-digested foodstuffs).
I think magic isn't important to the game as much is it is important for players to feel like anything's possible (i.e. without limits to their choices) in some campaigns/groups/opinions..hence now we have 'martial magic.'
jh
www.hafnerchiropractic.com
..
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This wasn't just 3rd Ed.
1st Ed DMG: "All magic and cleric spells are similar in that the word sounds, when combined into whatever patterns are applicable, are charged with
energy from the Positive or Negative Material Plane. When uttered, these
sounds cause the release of this energy, which in turn triggers a set
reaction. The release of the energy contained in these words is what
causes the spell to be forgotten or the writing to disappear from the surface upon which it is written."
You used energy when you cast a spell. The spell was stored as energy and then used.
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