D&D 5E (2014) How is 5th edition in respects to magic item creation?

[gyor]

I'll point out bladelocks can make a magic weapon at will.

 

[Staffan]

On top of the obvious balance issues this creates, there is also a verisimilitude problem: crafting such items takes half a million gold and 54.7 person-years (at 8 hours per person per day). It is mind-boggling (and immersion wrecking) to imagine that anyone would ever have gone to that much trouble to craft Soverign Glue.

That assumes that NPCs follow the same rules for item creation as PCs do. I, for one, subscribe to the Matt Colville school which says that NPCs can have access to classes PCs can't, in order to present appropriate and fun challenges. So an NPC can very well have an "alchemist" class (to use an old Rolemaster class name) that's all about making magic items, and which might have abilities that let them work on multiple items simultaneously ("OK, now I've got the healing potion on the stove, let's see about preparing the resin from the Oldest Tree in the World for some sovereign glue"), making them faster/cheaper/harder/stronger, and so on.

 

[Krachek]

So optional that every official adventure has contained loads of them. Magic items being optional is a marketing ploy by WotC to make you believe 5th Ed is balanced. A not insignificant amount of the community has bought that hook, line, and sinker. Spells are essentially reusable magic items; as long as they are in the game, magic items are in the game.

"Build your own game" is the mainline of 5ed.
5ed is balanced enough for casual, friendly game.
Crafting balance and Realistic price for items are not part of main concern of the dev team.
The actual rule on crafting are sufficient to help a rookie DM to play with it without screwing everything.

 

[CapnZapp]

I remember back in 3.5, wizards would craft massive amounts of scrolls and wands to supplement their slots. Even with higher-level spells, the gold cost was so low that a wizard with enough gold might never need to use a spell slot.

I know 5e has rules for magic item creation, including for scrolls. I was wondering: have they nerfed crafting somewhat? (At least so that crafting becomes viable only for rare occasions.)

Yes, somewhat

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[CapnZapp]

Then it's good that XGTE will have new magic item rules including likely magic item creation.

Something we've said the game needed to fulfil the promise pf 3rd edition conversion support since day one.

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[Illithidbix]

I know 5e has rules for magic item creation, including for scrolls. I was wondering: have they nerfed crafting somewhat? (At least so that crafting becomes viable only for rare occasions.)

In short. Yes, they have nerfed it.
Although actually running the numbers, it's not quite as much as I maybe first thought.

1) It's an optional rule in the DMG, "Depending on the style of your campaign and the particular backgrounds and interests of the adventurers, you can make some or all of the following activities available as options.
Now to me this is literally no different from anything else in the game, because DM is law, but I know to some gaming groups the difference bettween the DM saying "No crafted items" and "ok, I'll allow the optional crafting item rules" is MILES apart.

2) Crafting a magic item first requires a formula, and players only get a formula if the DM puts one into the adventure to be found, looted or bought. So even if the DM has opened the floodgates by saying "yes you can craft items", they retain control over what exactly can be crafted.

3) Only a spellcaster can craft a magic item, and if a spell is involved then it requires them to be able to cast that spell.

4) It requires a minumum level, an amount of gold and a number of work days, all based upon the rarity of the magic item.

5) If a spell is produced by the item then a spell slot of the relevent level must be spent crafting the item every day, and any compontents consumed.
(If it's a consumable item like a scroll the compontents are required only once).

So a +1 Magic Weapon (an uncommon item), requires a formula, a 3rd level spell caster, 500 gp and 20 days... which is perhaps pretty reasonable

A Wand of Fireballs (a rare item) requires a formula, a 6th level spell caster who can cast fireball, 5000 gp and 200 days.

Vs 3.5
BUT 5E doesn't require Xp, specific feats or anything similar that 3E did... and after some painful rereading of the rules.

In 3.5E, a +1 longsword would I believe require the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat (prerequisite: Caster level 5th) and cost... 1157.5gp of materials, 93 xp and take 3 days. (If I've done the maths right based upon 2315gp value... I think)

A Wand of Fireballs. The cheapest level 5 version with base cost of base cost 11,250... (5th level caster x 3rd level spell x 750gp)
In 3.5E requires Craft Wand (Caster level 5), 5625gp of materials, 450xp and take 12 days.
And have a set 50 charges rather than 7 charges with d6+1 recharging at dawn.

So mainly it's the requirement for a formula and the amount of time it takes that is the real difference, and very important ones at that.
(1 day per 25gp cost rather than 1 day per 1000gp), even with 5E allowing multiple people to help.

I will also confirm, that the 5E rules are a hellva less painful experience to reread.

The Unearthed Arcana on Downtime offered slightly different rules but roughly the same requirements for gold, time and formula, although allowing non casters to make items by having relevant proficiencies or the arcana skill.

 

[Tony Vargas]

So optional that every official adventure has contained loads of them.

Yep. The published adventures avail themselves of that option, liberally.

Magic items being optional is a marketing ploy by WotC to make you believe 5th Ed is balanced.

I didn't find it /that/ convincing. It's a viable claim of plausible deniability that the game it totally imbalanced on purpose, at least. The CR/encounter and encounters/rests guidelines also make a modest fig-leaf, that way.

It's a game designed as a compromise among a) the long history of D&D as baroquely & ineffectively balanced-by-shifting-imbalances-over-the-life-of-the-campaign and the grognards that like it that way, b) the shorter but still storied history of D&D as intentionally imbalanced by lavish rewards for system mastery and the 3.5/PF fans who like it that way, c) the brief year or two it was kinda-sorta mechanically balanced, depending on the errata ATM, and the sub-set of fans who actually valued that, and last, and by far, least d) what might /actually/ make the game more accessible to new fans (as opposed to what we grognards see, through our rose-colored non-prescription glasses, as having made it accessible to us back in the day).
Obviously that compromise was, well, weighted.

A not insignificant amount of the community has bought that hook, line, and sinker. Spells are essentially reusable magic items; as long as they are in the game, magic items are in the game.

Spells are magic, certainly (as is Ki, psionics, and even totem-barbarian rituals), and 5e is up-front about magic being the be-all and end-all of D&D, including openly giving it to every class.

 

[shadowoflameth]

Each tier has a cost range in the DMG. In my game, consumables use the low end figure.

On time, the calculation is the max time I'll require as a DM. I also let the heroes find valuable ingredients as treasure and allow that value to count towards the time. Most games in 5e have a lot of gold so for common-uncommon items it's not a big obstacle.

I do limit to one item at a time if someone wants to make 100 potions or such.

 

[Ancalagon]

The biggest problem with the 5e crafting rules is that the creation cost and time required to craft an item is based on Rarity, rather than utility. A single dose of Soverign Glue, for example, is just as expensive to create as a Belt of Storm Giant Strength or a Sphere of Annihilation, because all are considered "Lengendary" Rarity.

On top of the obvious balance issues this creates, there is also a verisimilitude problem: crafting such items takes half a million gold and 54.7 person-years (at 8 hours per person per day). It is mind-boggling (and immersion wrecking) to imagine that anyone would ever have gone to that much trouble to craft Soverign Glue.

If Soverign Glue was a one-off problem, it wouldn't be a big deal. But unfortunately the item lists are replete with examples where the utility of an item does not line up with its Rarity. This means the the limitations of the Rarity-based pricing scheme are unfortunately widespread. As written in the DMG, the provided rules are basically useless at tables that prioritize balance and/or verisimilitude.

But maybe sovereign glue *is* really hard to make, which is why it's so rare?

The amount of time required explains perfectly well why some items are rarer than others.

Mind you, as some people pointed out, the values are a range and consumables should be cheaper/easier to make than a permanent item of the same rarity...

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[Jester David]

The biggest problem with the 5e crafting rules is that the creation cost and time required to craft an item is based on Rarity, rather than utility. A single dose of Soverign Glue, for example, is just as expensive to create as a Belt of Storm Giant Strength or a Sphere of Annihilation, because all are considered "Lengendary" Rarity.

Sovereign glue is a consumable. So it will be a reduced price (half IIRC).
And arguably that would be for the full item. So a single dose would be less. You're expected to have 4.5 ounces, so one dose of sovereign glue should be 1/8th the price of a belt of storm giant strength.

On top of the obvious balance issues this creates, there is also a verisimilitude problem: crafting such items takes half a million gold and 54.7 person-years (at 8 hours per person per day). It is mind-boggling (and immersion wrecking) to imagine that anyone would ever have gone to that much trouble to craft Soverign Glue.

To make superglue that can permanently affix to things together?

If Soverign Glue was a one-off problem, it wouldn't be a big deal. But unfortunately the item lists are replete with examples where the utility of an item does not line up with its Rarity. This means the the limitations of the Rarity-based pricing scheme are unfortunately widespread. As written in the DMG, the provided rules are basically useless at tables that prioritize balance and/or verisimilitude.

Rarity in the DMG is based on the author's value of the items. They prioritised different things from you.

It's not like the 3e or 4e magic item tables were perfect and didn't have weird items that were priced too high/low.