How likely should character death be

[nightwalker450]

By "Actual Character Death" do you mean there is no raise dead, the character is gone?

If that is the case, then I'd be fine with 5% of someone dying each encounter (that's 5% for the party, not 5% per character).

If raise dead is available... Then it doesn't really matter, the conversation is pointless, because the PC's are effectively immortal.

 

[Boarstorm]

I'm of several minds on this one. My storyteller (not in the WoD sense) tendencies pull me in multiple directions, saying the threat of death should be ever-present, but that the trigger needs to only be truly pulled when it's dramatically appropriate. In other words, the players should FEEL threatened, but I don't want to kill off someone in the midst of their story without giving them some sort of closure in regards to their background hooks.

The result is a bit weird. Something like so...

Encounter: 1%.
Adventure: 10%.
Campaign: 100%.

 

[Minigiant]

Id due it by level span.

Level 1-10
Encounter: 5%
Adventure: 10%
Campaign: 20%
Entire Tier: 25%

At low levels you have a 1 out of 20 chance to go down. And you are more likely to stay down. But the world is less swingy and carefull tactics can keep you alive.

Level 10-20
Encounter: 10%
Adventure: 10%
Campaign: 50%
Entire Tier: 80%

Paragon has more "trap" encounters. Boom! Ban! You are dead. But the heroes here have more immunities and resistances to ignore a few freaky swingy deaths. Plus they have more resources to reduce chance of death and enough power to minimize the pain of death.

Level 20-30
Encounter: 15%
Adventure: 25%
Campaign: 99%
Entire Tier: 99.9%

4e had it right. Epic characters face challenges that are EXTREMELY deadly but they lack full immortality. Some can self ressurect. Others have powerful friends and bosses that will gladly bring them back. And their allies have power that trivialize random death. Only FULL ON, PURPOSEFUL, MURDERDEATH ASSASSINATION kills you for good.

 

[CleverNickName]

Short answer: it should be as likely as you want it to be.

Long answer: Character death needs to be both possible and probable in the game mechanics...and it needs to be flexible enough that the players/DM can choose how much of it they want in their games. Not everyone wants to play a gritty, save-or-die style of game...and not everyone wants to play a loose, fluffy, you-need-my-permission-to-kill-me style of game either.

5E needs to be flexible enough to accommodate all play styles. Character death should be no exception.

That said, my preference is for about a 20% probability. Character death creates an element of real, tangible risk in the game...which, if I do it right, can make the players' achievements even more awesome.

 

[Mattachine]

I prefer death to be rare and meaningful. The only deaths I typically "allow" as a DM are deaths due to foolish PC actions and intentionally risky actions (particularly heroic ones).

So. . .

Encounter: 1-5%
Adventure: 5-10%
Campaign: 75%

 

[rogueattorney]

It entirely depends on what activity is going on in the campaign. If combat is seldom or rare, death should also be seldom or rare. If combat is frequent, death can also be frequent depending on what challenge level the characters are taking on.

An even fight, by definition, should make for a 50/50 chance of the character going down. Through, strategy, tactics, and judicious use of diplomacy and running away, the players should do whatever they can to avoid an even fight.

 

[Bedrockgames]

If raise dead is available... Then it doesn't really matter, the conversation is pointless, because the PC's are effectively immortal.

depends on which version of raise dead you are using and whether the players have access to it all the time though.

 

[Madmage]

I think splitting it based on encounter/adventure/campaign is a bit vague because you have to define what is each.

Encounters range widely from random encounters to the final penultimate encounter. One group might consider and adventure a 1 session affair while another would consider an adventure a series of sessions. Even campaigns aren't necessarily as defined as it could mean a series of interlaced or plot related adventures before moving on to unrelated ones vs "the DM has run out of adventures or burnt out". Personally, I think a campaign has to involve at least some of the original characters that first started.

What I disliked in 2e was that the luck of the dice played a far more crucial role in determining player death at starting to low levels. 1 hit, or a series of non-hits could sway a fight far too easily. Sure the DM could fudge the dice, but I felt that to be cheap. 4th edition appears to have solved some of that problem so I'd like for them to keep that in mind. Other games get around this with stuff like "fate points" that players can spend to avoid fatal outcomes which could be something to look at. Although, I have to say I kind of dislike the whole self-ressurecting stuff as class abilities and the like.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I

What I disliked in 2e was that the luck of the dice played a far more crucial role in determining player death at starting to low levels. 1 hit, or a series of non-hits could sway a fight far too easily. Sure the DM could fudge the dice, but I felt that to be cheap. 4th edition appears to have solved some of that problem so I'd like for them to keep that in mind. Other games get around this with stuff like "fate points" that players can spend to avoid fatal outcomes which could be something to look at. Although, I have to say I kind of dislike the whole self-ressurecting stuff as class abilities and the like.

those are good points. But one thing to keep in mind, whether this was a problem or not depended on playstyle and preferences about charater death. Some groups hate script immunity, hp padding or fate points. All depends on the players.

 

[Madmage]

those are good points. But one thing to keep in mind, whether this was a problem or not depended on playstyle and preferences about charater death. Some groups hate script immunity, hp padding or fate points. All depends on the players.

I agree in terms of style, but this became less of a problem as PCs progressed due to having more hp cushion, more access to healing, and more magical items, etc. The cause of death at early levels was more linked to the result of the dice rather than strategy, forethought, or the like. I'm not advocating that PCs should never die due to randomness, but I think it is something that should be evened out over the levels so that a level 1 character facing a CR1 encounter has a closer probability to face death than a level 20 character facing a CR 20 encounter for all causes (luck, strategy, tactics, whatever).