How likely should character death be

[Bedrockgames]

I agree in terms of style, but this became less of a problem as PCs progressed due to having more hp cushion, more access to healing, and more magical items, etc. The cause of death at early levels was more linked to the result of the dice rather than strategy, forethought, or the like. I'm not advocating that PCs should never die due to randomness, but I think it is something that should be evened out over the levels so that a level 1 character facing a CR1 encounter has a closer probability to face death than a level 20 character facing a CR 20 encounter for all causes (luck, strategy, tactics, whatever).

This is certainly an issue of consistency, but it is also embedded deeply in the he nature of D&D (easy to kill early on but much harder to kill at higher level).

 

[Lanefan]

For any individual character, at a rough guess:
Encounter: 1%
Adventure: 5-10%
Campaign: 99% - extremely rare to have a long-term character who doesn't die at least once

Whether anyone in the party will die, again at a rough guess:
Encounter: 5%
Adventure: 90% or more - rare is the adventure where nobody dies
Campaign: unity

Here "encounter" is defined as pretty much anything involving risk - could be a combat, a trap, a cursed item, whatever.

"Campaign" is defined as just that but for the death stats I'm ignoring short-term characters and focusing on those who stick around for a while.

Lanefan

 

[Minigiant]

I agree in terms of style, but this became less of a problem as PCs progressed due to having more hp cushion, more access to healing, and more magical items, etc. The cause of death at early levels was more linked to the result of the dice rather than strategy, forethought, or the like. I'm not advocating that PCs should never die due to randomness, but I think it is something that should be evened out over the levels so that a level 1 character facing a CR1 encounter has a closer probability to face death than a level 20 character facing a CR 20 encounter for all causes (luck, strategy, tactics, whatever).

This is certainly an issue of consistency, but it is also embedded deeply in the he nature of D&D (easy to kill early on but much harder to kill at higher level).

This is why my percentages are the way they are. At low levels, anything could kill you: very bad combat matchups, a debuff spells, HP damage spells, critical hits, nasty poisons. And you have little way to avoid or stop any of it.

But as you level up, the swinginess gets worse. Petrification shows up. Death spells shows up. Ridiculous combat combs show up.

But you can limit what kills you. A fighter wont die from death spells and fireballs but mental effects whoop his butt. Wizards are hard to mindwarp and have spells to be immune to this or that but one turn in front of a fighter equals death.

And this is effect on adventuring length. At low levels, individual encounters have a low chance of death but one bad fight an BAM! DEAD! REROLL!

But as levels increase, the accidental death is Low but purposeful/reckless death is High. Every fight has a deadly element but they are mostly novaing or firing off one or two of the caster's highest spells.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

I get pumped up and attached to each and every character I make but I still let the dice decide and if they decide that it's time for me to go then I accept it. I don't want a system where I have to go through 9 different rolls and negative 100hp in order for me to finally die. I like the challenge and I like for death to be waiting around the corner so I can either own it or it owns me.

 

[Ahnehnois]

If death or defeat for the PCs is not a realistic outcome of a battle (I'd say at least a 5% chance in D&D tradition), then there is no reason to fight it. Put the dice away, say the PCs won, and move on.

There is, however, an element of dramatic conceit or gamism that says that the PCs should generally have an advantage in most situations. Which is where people are going to differ on how much of that conceit you should have. Personally, if I get to a double-digit number of real battles without a PC death, I think something strange is going on.

 

[rjfTrebor]

personally i'd like for character death to be something the dm and players can see coming and at least have a chance to avoid it.

i don't ever want to hear "sorry Rob, that giant just got really lucky. send me your new sheet in time for next week"

however, i also enjoy a pc meatgrinder type game every now and again and i'd like to see some optional rules that can support that type of play as well.

 

[FireLance]

Well, let's look at the math*. Assuming a 20-level campaign, and 10 combat encounters per level, you get something like the following probabilities:

If you want a 50% chance of character death per campaign, you're going to need a 3.4% chance of character death per level, and a 0.3% chance of character death per encounter.

If you want a 75% chance of character death per campaign, that translates to a 6.7% chance of character death per level, and a 0.7% chance of character death per encounter.

If you want a 95% chance of character death per campaigm, that's a 13.9% chance of character death per level, and a 1.5% chance of character death per encounter.

So, if you want to give the characters an even chance of surviving to the end of a 20-level campaign with 10 combat encounters per level, they must be almost certain (99.7%) to survive each encounter. Going to as low as a 98.5% chance of surviving each encounter means that character death in the campaign is a near-certainty (95%).

I repeat my point about math.

* Math is kind of like gravity. Whether or not you ignore it, believe in it, or like it, it's going to work.

 

[Stormonu]

One red-shirt henchmen must die per adventure to get the lethality point across!

I'm going to skip death-per-encounter as I don't want it to be static per scene. Some scenes should be cakewalks, some difficult, some overwhelming and others the PC's ought to get the hint and run.

So, I'm going to say, per Adventure:

If the party plans poorly or not at all:
25%-100%

If the party plans some and is careful:
10%-25%

If the party investigates what they're getting into:
5% or less

Death-per-campaign has no meaning for me either...

 

[RHGreen]

It shouldn't be percentages or regularities.


When PCs should die:

1. When they are losing and don't run away.

2. When they rush into a fight like idiots, with no idea what they are facing because they assume it is a level appropriate encounter.

3. When they throw themselves off a cliff because they have enough hit points to survive it.

4. When the DM warns them over and over again that they are going to a fight with no chance winning, but go anyway.

5. When they take a shortcut through an area that says on their map "Abandon all hope!" or "Do not go in this wood. You will die!" or "Even God's Die Here!", etc, etc.

6. When they use Charisma for basic melee attacks.

7. When they spend all of the session having sex with tavern wenches and using 'That' voice. Again! Brian Blessed, I'm so sorry. (Yes, I am looking at you Yogscast.)

8. When they spend a whole 4 hours discussing what they should do next, and never agree because that is what they think roleplaying is, and they get squashed by a dragon god the size of a moon.


There's a start.

 

[Eric Tolle]

Well, let's look at the math*.

I was waiting for someone who actually knew math to show up. A lot of the percentages being quoted were really wonky. For example, 5% chance of death per encounter is going to result in a massive overturn per level.

For my preference, I tend to have a low death rate in encounters- 1% maybe or even lower. But that's because my players tend to make fully fleshed characters with backgrounds and goals, not just some numbers on a piece of paper. And it's really annoying all around for that sort of character to get killed in some random fight because a goblin rolled well. Now at the climax of their story, all bets are off and a TPK is possible. Otherwise capture is more likely.

Of course on the other hand, I expect players to play smart as well- truly stupid actions are probably a sign that the player is bored of the character and wants to start over.