How long did this session take?
- Thread starter MerricB
- Start date
Lanefan
Victoria Rules
There needs to be a corollary poll, with the one guessing how long Merric's group would take and the other guessing how long our own group would take, for the same sequence.
For my part, this would probably be 2 sessions worth of activity, totalling maybe 6-8 hours; less if the foes appeared by surprise or ambush (meaning the party had to react *now*), more if the party had time to plan for each encounter (I'm also assuming the manticore combat going so easily is an aberration and could not be expected to recur every time).
Our combats tend to be slow; in two sessions this weekend we had two significant combats (one each) and in each there was at least one round that took close to an hour to resolve. One combat was a party of 11 against a Dracolich and a few trivial underlings, while the other was a 3-way affair with the party not quite sure who their allies were, if any, which led to a lot of arguing within the party "Attack that one!" "No, leave him alive, kill them instead!" "I'm killing this one and that's that!" during the battle...lots of fun.
Lanefan
For my part, this would probably be 2 sessions worth of activity, totalling maybe 6-8 hours; less if the foes appeared by surprise or ambush (meaning the party had to react *now*), more if the party had time to plan for each encounter (I'm also assuming the manticore combat going so easily is an aberration and could not be expected to recur every time).
Our combats tend to be slow; in two sessions this weekend we had two significant combats (one each) and in each there was at least one round that took close to an hour to resolve. One combat was a party of 11 against a Dracolich and a few trivial underlings, while the other was a 3-way affair with the party not quite sure who their allies were, if any, which led to a lot of arguing within the party "Attack that one!" "No, leave him alive, kill them instead!" "I'm killing this one and that's that!" during the battle...lots of fun.
Lanefan
G'day, all!
The correct answer for my group was 3 hours, as several people deduced (especially Allan).
A few notes:
Role-playing
This group isn't heavily into role-playing (as in, speaking in-character with NPCs). They are capable of it, certainly, but conversations tend to be primarily aimed at the information needed from the NPC in question rather than pleasantries. There were all of 3 interactions in the game: the Cleric with his patriarch at the beginning of the session, the group with the town speaker & head of the watch, and the group with Jorr the ranger. All didn't take very long at all; I'd estimate the first was about 5 minutes, the second two no more than 10 minutes each.
The group is, of course, influenced by my own views on the game. I tend to emphasize the plot & story (and action) over interactions, although I've been known to run sessions of nothing but role-playing. This is, however, not one of those adventures. At least, not yet! I expect in a couple of sessions there'll be a lot more role-playing
Combats
The first combat lasted about 7-8 rounds, aided by effective use of the fireball spell. There was a nice moment when the hobgoblin cleric, invisible, healed the hobgoblin fighter. Immediately, the party's cleric used a dispel magic to remove the hobgoblin's protection and all ended swiftly after that.
The second combat, against the hydra, began when the party wizard fireballed a not-so-innocuous terrain feature it was hiding behind. The entire combat lasted about 5 rounds, with the cleric and fighter entering melee with the hydra and chopping it into little bits, and the wizard fireballing it from time to time.
The third combat, against the manticore, I have described. It was short.
The fourth combat, against the hobgoblins and goblin worgriders lasted about 6-8 rounds, and mostly involved melee and thrown weapons, with some spell back-up from the wizard.
The fifth combat, against the minotaur and the bugbear wizard, was very interesting. The bugbear blinded the party's wizard in the first round of combat, and thus Adam took no further part in the battles this game. The minotaur went down on the first round before it could take an action, as both the rogue and the fighter criticalled it. (Bow and longsword). After that, the bugbear kept retreating and lightning bolting the party, rendering the cleric and rogue unconscious. The wizard happened to be next to the rogue, and healed him with a potion; the rogue did the same for the cleric, and the cleric kept the fighter alive until the bugbear was slain. About 6 rounds, I think, in all.
The final combat, against the worg riders, was a random encounter at night. Adam was still blind, so I thought nothing against setting the goblins all together ready to engage the party. The Rogue, who has one level of wizard, caught them all with a colour spray and which knocked out half of them for 5 rounds! After that, it was effective melee from the fighter and cleric - the combat lasted about 5 rounds in total.
We use miniatures and a battlemat. I have a pretty good grasp of the rules. (I better - I've been running 2 sessions a week this year!) This, obviously, helps in getting the combats going quickly. Then too, these combats weren't full of special manuevers.
Mind you, I'm getting a lot of practice in the grappling rules of late.
My players also tend to stick to the basics: Cast a spell that they understand. Move quickly on the battle grid. Hit something with a sword. Hit something hard with a sword. (Most of the fighters in my campaigns precalculate common Power Attack values. It really speeds things up!)
I also don't spend a lot of time adjudicating spell effects. I trust the players to know what they're doing. I did look up colour spray during the session, but that was it. After you've run as much D&D 3.5e as I have, it's not hard to remember how common spells work.
A few notes on higher-level combats
5th-7th level is easy. By 15th level, it gets slower. Later that night, I ran the latest session in my Age of Worms campaign - we've reached the Library of Last Resort. In a 3 hour session, we only had two combats and a lot of debate over what the best spells to use to solve the problems were. (Or to gain when levelling up). Mind you, it was a slower session than normal. Still...
The first battle was against a Night Twist, and it was quick. It was easy. I killed two of the four PCs, and then the druid kept hitting the tree with lightning until it died whilst making all his Will saves.
The second battle was against a Cleric, 2 tiefling monks, 1 efreeti lord, 1 advanced nightmare, and one horned devil. That didn't really last that long, but did demonstrate to me why I prefer MM4, and the problems with such battles: they are way too complicated.
The trouble is the special abilities. When you're looking at a very high level Cleric, plus a Efreeti Lord plus a Horned Devil, they all have spells that they want to use. The choice is overwhelming. I really didn't run that combat well. (Mind you, the party played well. Have you ever seen what phantom stag (SC) can do? Wow!)
A battle with 6 horned devils is simpler because you only have to worry about one set of stats. Or, even, 2 horned devils and 4 high-level fighters, because the fighters only real tactic involves simple combat. High-level spells are the greatest cause of slowing down a combat for me, because (a) I haven't memorised what they do and (b) there are so many choices to make.
For those interested (and not afraid of spoilers), you can find session reports here:
* Age of Worms
* Red Hand of Doom
Cheers!
The correct answer for my group was 3 hours, as several people deduced (especially Allan).
A few notes:
Role-playing
This group isn't heavily into role-playing (as in, speaking in-character with NPCs). They are capable of it, certainly, but conversations tend to be primarily aimed at the information needed from the NPC in question rather than pleasantries. There were all of 3 interactions in the game: the Cleric with his patriarch at the beginning of the session, the group with the town speaker & head of the watch, and the group with Jorr the ranger. All didn't take very long at all; I'd estimate the first was about 5 minutes, the second two no more than 10 minutes each.
The group is, of course, influenced by my own views on the game. I tend to emphasize the plot & story (and action) over interactions, although I've been known to run sessions of nothing but role-playing. This is, however, not one of those adventures. At least, not yet! I expect in a couple of sessions there'll be a lot more role-playing
Combats
The first combat lasted about 7-8 rounds, aided by effective use of the fireball spell. There was a nice moment when the hobgoblin cleric, invisible, healed the hobgoblin fighter. Immediately, the party's cleric used a dispel magic to remove the hobgoblin's protection and all ended swiftly after that.
The second combat, against the hydra, began when the party wizard fireballed a not-so-innocuous terrain feature it was hiding behind. The entire combat lasted about 5 rounds, with the cleric and fighter entering melee with the hydra and chopping it into little bits, and the wizard fireballing it from time to time.
The third combat, against the manticore, I have described. It was short.
The fourth combat, against the hobgoblins and goblin worgriders lasted about 6-8 rounds, and mostly involved melee and thrown weapons, with some spell back-up from the wizard.
The fifth combat, against the minotaur and the bugbear wizard, was very interesting. The bugbear blinded the party's wizard in the first round of combat, and thus Adam took no further part in the battles this game. The minotaur went down on the first round before it could take an action, as both the rogue and the fighter criticalled it. (Bow and longsword). After that, the bugbear kept retreating and lightning bolting the party, rendering the cleric and rogue unconscious. The wizard happened to be next to the rogue, and healed him with a potion; the rogue did the same for the cleric, and the cleric kept the fighter alive until the bugbear was slain. About 6 rounds, I think, in all.
The final combat, against the worg riders, was a random encounter at night. Adam was still blind, so I thought nothing against setting the goblins all together ready to engage the party. The Rogue, who has one level of wizard, caught them all with a colour spray and which knocked out half of them for 5 rounds! After that, it was effective melee from the fighter and cleric - the combat lasted about 5 rounds in total.
We use miniatures and a battlemat. I have a pretty good grasp of the rules. (I better - I've been running 2 sessions a week this year!) This, obviously, helps in getting the combats going quickly. Then too, these combats weren't full of special manuevers.
Mind you, I'm getting a lot of practice in the grappling rules of late.
My players also tend to stick to the basics: Cast a spell that they understand. Move quickly on the battle grid. Hit something with a sword. Hit something hard with a sword. (Most of the fighters in my campaigns precalculate common Power Attack values. It really speeds things up!)
I also don't spend a lot of time adjudicating spell effects. I trust the players to know what they're doing. I did look up colour spray during the session, but that was it. After you've run as much D&D 3.5e as I have, it's not hard to remember how common spells work.
A few notes on higher-level combats
5th-7th level is easy. By 15th level, it gets slower. Later that night, I ran the latest session in my Age of Worms campaign - we've reached the Library of Last Resort. In a 3 hour session, we only had two combats and a lot of debate over what the best spells to use to solve the problems were. (Or to gain when levelling up). Mind you, it was a slower session than normal. Still...
The first battle was against a Night Twist, and it was quick. It was easy. I killed two of the four PCs, and then the druid kept hitting the tree with lightning until it died whilst making all his Will saves.
The second battle was against a Cleric, 2 tiefling monks, 1 efreeti lord, 1 advanced nightmare, and one horned devil. That didn't really last that long, but did demonstrate to me why I prefer MM4, and the problems with such battles: they are way too complicated.
The trouble is the special abilities. When you're looking at a very high level Cleric, plus a Efreeti Lord plus a Horned Devil, they all have spells that they want to use. The choice is overwhelming. I really didn't run that combat well. (Mind you, the party played well. Have you ever seen what phantom stag (SC) can do? Wow!)
A battle with 6 horned devils is simpler because you only have to worry about one set of stats. Or, even, 2 horned devils and 4 high-level fighters, because the fighters only real tactic involves simple combat. High-level spells are the greatest cause of slowing down a combat for me, because (a) I haven't memorised what they do and (b) there are so many choices to make.
For those interested (and not afraid of spoilers), you can find session reports here:
* Age of Worms
* Red Hand of Doom
Cheers!
Last edited:
osted before I read the last post, natch. Pretty dang close, though!
I'd like to thank everyone who has participated in the poll and discussion so far. I hope you're finding the topic interesting. Now we can get to the fun bit of talking about what it means.
I think I'm a long way from the best DM in the world. There are areas - particularly as relates to role-playing and encouraging everyone to be in character - where I'm fairly weak. My strength is really in running combat quickly, but I think that can be quite important. ^_^
Cheers!
I think I'm a long way from the best DM in the world. There are areas - particularly as relates to role-playing and encouraging everyone to be in character - where I'm fairly weak. My strength is really in running combat quickly, but I think that can be quite important. ^_^
Cheers!
MoogleEmpMog
First Post
I guessed 9 hours. My second guess would be 10+.
This whole 'multiple combats in a single session' thing is throwing me, though.
EDIT: Just read Merric's post. All I can say is:
This whole 'multiple combats in a single session' thing is throwing me, though.
EDIT: Just read Merric's post. All I can say is:
Angel Tarragon
Dawn Dragon
I was one of the 3 hour voters. Glad to know I nailed it. 
Shadowdancer
First Post
I find that when running games for my home group, they lag. The combats Merric listed in the first post would have taken us weeks, if not months, to get through. We have too much talking out of character as well as in game role-playing, shopping, selecting spells and equipment, etc.
But when I'm running LG mods for RPGA sessions, I run them fast, and usually get finished well before the allotted 4 hours.
Interestingly enough, I've run the same LG mods for my home group, and again they take forever -- pushing 4 hours, if not longer.
But when I'm running LG mods for RPGA sessions, I run them fast, and usually get finished well before the allotted 4 hours.
Interestingly enough, I've run the same LG mods for my home group, and again they take forever -- pushing 4 hours, if not longer.
Hussar
Legend
I did say 5 hours, so I wasn't too terribly far off. It would be slower for my bunch, simply because of the medium. To be fair though, my guys are now about 12th and 13th level and are blowing through about two to three combats per 3 hour session. And, honestly, it's not a 3 hour session with interruptions due to my children, computer issues and whatnot. Really, it's about 2.
I totally agree with MerricB here. Trying to run multiple creatures all with different special abilities is a major pain. About the best thing I've found for this is spell cards. Just write out their special abilities on 3x5 cards (and KEEP THEM for later) and draw from each hand as initiative dictates.
Honestly, I'd be very curious how quickly my lot would go through low level combat now. It's hard to say. But, since my guys all have a great deal of experience with the differences of online play, I would like to think we could come close to a 2 minute round with 5 players and 1 DM.
I know, even at high levels, my lot are close to that.
I totally agree with MerricB here. Trying to run multiple creatures all with different special abilities is a major pain. About the best thing I've found for this is spell cards. Just write out their special abilities on 3x5 cards (and KEEP THEM for later) and draw from each hand as initiative dictates.
Honestly, I'd be very curious how quickly my lot would go through low level combat now. It's hard to say. But, since my guys all have a great deal of experience with the differences of online play, I would like to think we could come close to a 2 minute round with 5 players and 1 DM.
I know, even at high levels, my lot are close to that.
Joshua Randall
Legend
I think the new statblock format helps a lot with this. Spells are listed in reverse order by level (i.e., highest level spells are listed first, followed by next-highest, etc.). SLAs are listed the same way, I think (or at least they should be!).MerricB said:
Almost all of the monsters the PCs face are going to die in a handful of rounds, so the monsters have every reason to unleash their most powerful spells up front, holding nothing back. (One exception would be if you want a recurring villain to escape, but I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that.)
You do need to spend a couple minute looking at spells, SLAs, or other special abilities so you can pick out which ones are actually worthwhile and which ones aren't. But literally only a couple minutes should be ample time.
For example, off the top of my head...
The very high level cleric could lead with a maximized flame strike, or imposion if he's 17th+ level. And then follow with progressively weaker spells until he or the PCs are dead.
The horned devils could open with dispel good, and then half of them could fling fireballs while the rest melee. (They're immune to fire damage, so no reason not to fireball their friends.) I'd not bother having the horned devils try to summon additional devils, as that would just complicate the combat, and has a low chance of success anyway.
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