how long do you let combat go? why?

[pyk]

This is a hard one to answer, SCA is more about pitched battles than adventuring and LARP doesn't have the same equipment weights although the exertion model is right. But I will use the LARP experience as the fact that the equipment is around half to two thirds the weight (20 lbs for a chain shirt, 2-3 lbs for a longsword etc) should be balanced by the factors that a) I LARP about 4 times a year and b) I spend the rest of the time sitting at a desk so I would not approach the level of fitness of a professional adventurer and hero. So taking that into account I will draw some parallels

Within a 12 hour adventuring day of 6 hours trekking through the forest and hills there are normally about 8-10 fighting encounters. Fights of about 10 mins did not lead to a noticeable impairment of fighting ability (although after the adrenaline wears off you do need a rest). A big running battle of 20-30 minutes is where you start to reach the point where fatigue really starts affecting your abilities (although less so for unarmoured people).

All in all I would say that a reasonable ruling would be between CON and CON *2 minutes until characters start accruing penalties, if you want to be accurate then base it off load, CON * 2 for a light load, CON * 1.5 for a medium load and CON minutes for a heavy load would be accurate IMO.

I view the whole D&D experience a lot like those Chinese martial-arts movies. The ones where the twelve guys get the snot beat out of them by one guy, that one guy walks off, the twelve guys all jump up and yell "let's get him!!!" and go get the snot beat of of them again.

D&D to me is as akin to real life as any movie is. It's all as real as you wish to make it. I go by what they say in the books, until a character gets to 0 hps, they do not suffer any detrimental effects. I liked "Real Action Hero" when Arnold got shot six times, and the doctor called it a "flesh wound, get back to work."

 

[diaglo]

During 2ed, my DM used to rule that you were pretty much useless after getting knocked below 0 and healed until you got a full nights rest. I hated getting KO'ed so I ended playing a coward all the time...

it was like that in 1edADnD too.

magical healing restored your hps, but you still needed to rest (no activity) if you dipped below 0hps. it took a lot longer too.

of course, OD&D(1974) was different. you were dead.

 

[Plane Sailing]

In D&D this hasn't been an issue in my games - once the PC's passed 5th level all combats are over in less than 10 rounds. Even at lower levels it was rare for them to go on much longer except against hordes of goblins.

I did post my suggestion about tiring in combat in this d20modern thread http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=62688&page=1&pp=20 as an answer to the quandary of "how does a nonlethal fight end under d20m rules between two normals?".

This is what I said there:

Just thinking out loud here, but I'm wondering whether (for my own purposes) it might be worth inserting an additional house rule to handle the word which I've emphasised in the above quote.

Why don't people stand pummelling each other for ever in the real world? One of the reasons why they can't do it is that they get tired. D20 games don't really have any mechanism for tiring in combat, and most of the time it would be an annoying additional bit of record keeping, but just keeping on with the thought experiment here...

What if PC's could only fight non-stop without penalty for their CON in melee rounds? (+4 with Endurance feat, natch). Most combats will be up long before that, so it won't be relevant, but if a nonlethal slapping match is going on between two white collar workers the less fit one will end up getting tireder first. Now we could say "fatigued after CON rounds, exhausted after another CON rounds if he keeps on fighting". (or optionally going straight to exhausted?)

Getting your wind back? Perhaps take a full-round action that provokes AoO to get your wind back (optionally with a DC15 Fort ST to "reset" your personal endurance clock).

In almost all serious fights the rule won't come into effect because melee is over more quickly. In longer fights I quite like the idea of a PC or NPC stopping to grab a breather and get his wind back. It would also prevent the idea of two people swinging ineffectively at each other actually going on all day.

I quite like this idea, and will float it with my other players. Can you see any glaring stupidity or elegant simplifications that could be made to it?

 

[Silverglass]

I view the whole D&D experience a lot like those Chinese martial-arts movies. The ones where the twelve guys get the snot beat out of them by one guy, that one guy walks off, the twelve guys all jump up and yell "let's get him!!!" and go get the snot beat of of them again.

D&D to me is as akin to real life as any movie is. It's all as real as you wish to make it. I go by what they say in the books, until a character gets to 0 hps, they do not suffer any detrimental effects. I liked "Real Action Hero" when Arnold got shot six times, and the doctor called it a "flesh wound, get back to work."

Well I do agree with you somewhat, this topic is not something I would ever bother about as a DM in D&D. However the question was asked to supply some figures that could be used as a House Rule. Rather that just make up some numbers I wanted some logical justification and a RL comparison is possible in these circumstances as the topic is phyiscal tiredness due to exertion rather than magical tiredness due to spells which could not have a RL reference.

BTW I play a high fantasy LARP which is pretty close to thw way 3E D&D turned out, where PC's do get shot 6 times and carry on because they are high level.

 

[green slime]

Well, one consideration is that it should really only apply for people in melee, or actually running or the like.

Standing shooting a bow, while it may be somewhat tiring, isn't quite as draining as ducking and weaving those blows. Given that most PCs are going to have 10+ Con, this rule is going to hurt the tanks, which is why I'm kind of hesitant. I'd like to try it out, which I will when that Campaign gets underway.

Another question is how quickly should one recover from this? In RL, it doesn't take too long at all, as you have been relying on the same energy sources you use to run 400/800 m. You get lactic acid, which is for all practical purposes removed after 30 min - 1 hour, even after you're so tired to collapse at the finish line (of course you notice it if you have to do a repeat performance).

Perhaps it is too much to split it into different activities (sniping vs melee vs spellcasting) and just lump it all into activities on the battlefield. They all require concentration and some amount of physical presence.

There is much to be said for the simlper approach of just ignoring it.

 

[alsih2o]

I remember six minute matches. I was a lightweight (112's), and those matches are all moving (unlike heavyweight matches, which were just fat guys slamming into each other). Sometimes you couldn't help but vomiting and quivering like a jelly afterwards. I couldn't imagine doing it with a sword and shield and plate mail and against an orc or ogre or dragon or something.

this was my point (i was 98, then 105) but i see others points here too.

this is the great part about this place, i can make decisions about my game and them bring them here to et enworlders be the devil and angel on my shoulders.

if this many people are so against the concept my players will proabably hate it too...

 

[WayneLigon]

It's not something I've ever bothered with, for several reasons.

1. It adds yet another thing to remember and take into account. The fewer of those, the better.

2. I fall into the catagory of rarely having seen a fight last more than a minute.

3. I figure that the adrenaline boost the heroes are getting by risking their lives (rather than being in sport or play fighting) more than compensates for all the activity. A lot of times, after a fight, I'll have my character rest, or pant, or shake a little; the kind of stuff that happens after that kind of intense exertion. It just adds flavor.

 

[DM2]

Wow. I see many people have 10 round combats as being unusual. The average time for a combat IMC is around 15-18 rounds, with quite a few stretching beyond 30 rounds.

Really? Wow. Most of ours (we're going through RttToEE right now) last 4-8. Maybe its my somewhat large group (5 PCs, 2 cohorts), or the level we're at (lvl 7-9) ?

We've had a few combats last longer, but usually when they involve combat-delaying obstacles like entanglement or web spells.

DM2