How many caster levels should Practiced Spellcaster give

[maggot]

I'm looking for house rules for Practiced Spellcaster. The current feat gives out 4 caster levels and that seems like way too much.

Before this feat we considered a feat that gave out 1 caster level in the same fashion, but we rejected it when we realized any wizard who wanted improved initiative could multiclass to fighter for free with this kind of feat. Or at least any elf, human, or half-elf wizard could do it for a very low cost and for much game (martial weapons, extra hit points, etc.).

Giving out 4 caster levels (four!) means a lot of spellcasters with four levels of fighter, or even better two levels of rogue and two of fighter.

So what would a good value for a Practiced Spellcaster like feat be.

 

[Fieari]

Could you quickly quote exactly what Practised Spellcaster does -now-? I'm not 100% familiar with it.

However, going blind by what you said, I'd consider a feat that lets you raise your "caster level" by one something possibly fair (not definitely, I'm not experienced enough to say that for sure). Caster level meaning: Save DCs +1, Duration +1, sometimes damage die +1, but not able to case spells of a higher level.

Although, this does slightly step on the toes of metamagic a little, which has a similar effect (although it doesn't let you raise your effective caster level above your current caster level)...

 

[Anabstercorian]

Stick with the feat as written, that's my advice.

 

[maggot]

Could you quickly quote exactly what Practised Spellcaster does -now-? I'm not 100% familiar with it.

It raises your caster level for one class by 4 for everything associated with casting (spells known and power of spells cast). Just like many prestige classes give out +1 caster level, but this gives out +4. The only limitation on it is that your caster level cannot go above your total level, so it is only good for multiclass casters.

 

[maggot]

Stick with the feat as written, that's my advice.

Do you have any reasoning behind that position?

Here is my counter point:

Wizard 5 vs. Fighter 2/Rogue 2/Wizard 1 with the +4 version of practiced spellcaster. The multiclassed guy has eight more hit points on average, evasion (!), access to martial weapons (like the bow) and armor. All this for virtually no cost: the feat spent on Practiced Spellcaster comes back with Fighter 1, and the feat lost at Wizard 5 comes back at Fighter 2.

The Wizard has a slightly better familiar (if he chose to take one at all) and can choose less martial feats.

And this isn't even the most abusive combo, just something I threw together as an example. A single Barbarian level would help any spellcaster with movement, skills and hit points.

 

[Staffan]

It raises your caster level for one class by 4 for everything associated with casting (spells known and power of spells cast). Just like many prestige classes give out +1 caster level, but this gives out +4. The only limitation on it is that your caster level cannot go above your total level, so it is only good for multiclass casters.

If you mean the feat in Complete Divine, you might want to read it again. It specifically does not affect spells known or spells per day. So a Fighter 4/Wizard 5 with the feat would be able to cast a fireball doing 9d6 damage, and would roll d20+9 when penetrating spell resistance, but would not be able to cast a teleport.

 

[Blue Sky]

Do you have any reasoning behind that position?

Here is my counter point:

Wizard 5 vs. Fighter 2/Rogue 2/Wizard 1 with the +4 version of practiced spellcaster. The multiclassed guy has eight more hit points on average, evasion (!), access to martial weapons (like the bow) and armor. All this for virtually no cost: the feat spent on Practiced Spellcaster comes back with Fighter 1, and the feat lost at Wizard 5 comes back at Fighter 2.

The Wizard has a slightly better familiar (if he chose to take one at all) and can choose less martial feats.

And this isn't even the most abusive combo, just something I threw together as an example. A single Barbarian level would help any spellcaster with movement, skills and hit points.

You're forgetting one important thing. The multi-classed wizard is casting his spells with a caster level of 5, but he still has access only to first level spells. The wizard 5 has fireball, invisibility, hold person, etc.

Caster Level only applies to spell duration, damage, etc. Wizard level is what determines what spells he gets.

 

[Liquidsabre]

Right, what Blue Sky said. An increase in caster level doesn't provide any increased spell capacity as a PrC with +1 spellcasting progression does (which does provide an additional level of casting).

 

[Nifft]

Given that I hardly ever see the feat used in the Character Optimization boards (over on the WotC forums), I think it's probably not overpowered as written.

-- N

 

[ARandomGod]

Right, what Blue Sky said. An increase in caster level doesn't provide any increased spell capacity as a PrC with +1 spellcasting progression does (which does provide an additional level of casting).

Yea, it sounds to me like you're thinking this gives +1 spellcasting progression. It does not. You keep the exact same spellcasting ability, but in regards to spells that say "per caster level" and in regards to spell resistance, you act up to four levels higher (but not higher than your total level).

Given that it's not overpowered at all. In fact, even with it casters that take levels in a non-caster class are signifigantly hurt by having done so. So the rogue 3 wizard 5 can cast mage armour as an 8th level mage. And true, his fireballs are as powerful as if they were eight level. But he's *just now* gotten that fireball.

On the other hand, a feat that gives +1 spellcasting levels... THAT would be awesome.