5E How many classes in multiclass is to much?

Esker

Explorer
For every multiclass level you take you have to give up high-end abilities in your core class. For example, most assassin build go F2/R3 to start, which means no capstone in either class. So you have to balance what you're gaining with what you're losing (all assuming you go all the way to 20th).
I would argue that more important than the high level abilities you are giving up in your ultimate build are the low to medium level abilities that you are delaying. To me it's important to consider the path and the end point together, instead of committing to an end point first and then determining the progression within that constraint.
 

Fenris-77

Explorer
I would argue that more important than the high level abilities you are giving up in your ultimate build are the low to medium level abilities that you are delaying. To me it's important to consider the path and the end point together, instead of committing to an end point first and then determining the progression within that constraint.
Which is why I highlighted the importance of figuring out what order to take things in. A lot of MCs work in dips of less than 5, so it's not hard to rationalize abilities by level. That said, if you're using a logical progression to decide on MC options, the first thing that you know for certain is what high level abilities you give up to MC, which is why I started with that.
That trade-off may make you decide it's not worth it. After you've decided that, then you can start looking at ability delays and synergies.
 

Esker

Explorer
if you're using a logical progression to decide on MC options, the first thing that you know for certain is what high level abilities you give up to MC, which is why I started with that. That trade-off may make you decide it's not worth it. After you've decided that, then you can start looking at ability delays and synergies.
Except that deciding that something isn't worth it because of what you'll miss out on at level 20 seems dubious to me.

Here's an example: suppose I'm building a glamor bard with a few levels of sorcerer for metamagic, some attack cantrips and defensive self-buffs. I'd like to go Bard 17 / Sorcerer 3 to get 9th level spells eventually, and let's say I've settled on Bard 5 / Sorcerer 3 with the actor feat as a breakpoint, because my concept is a slippery infiltrator who uses disguise self and expertise and advantage in deception to get places where he's not supposed to go, and then uses spells like Suggestion and Hypnotic Pattern with subtle spell to control the situation. My ASIs and feats will be Actor, +2 CHA, Alert, and Resilient CON. I'm giving up my 5th ASI for metamagic and 9th level spells, but I'm happy with that trade.

If I want 9th level spells eventually, I have no choice: I've got to go bard the rest of the way. But this means that my last three ASIs come at levels 11, 15 and 19. If instead I take Sorcerer 4 at level 9 then switch back to Bard, then I get ASIs at 9, 12, 16, and a bonus one at 20. That means that for all but two levels of my character's remaining career, I've got one more ASI under my belt than I would otherwise. At level 20 I'm sad because I don't get my 9th level spell. But for almost the entire campaign before that, I have a really useful feature I wouldn't have otherwise. And, ok, it doesn't come for free: I'm delaying all my other bard features by a level each. But it's certainly possible that by sacrificing a high level feature for one level, I'm making my character stronger for most of his career.

(By the way, I kind of want to play that character now)
 

Fenris-77

Explorer
You're misunderstanding me completely. The question about high level abilities is the first question, not the only question. It also has a variety of answers. For example, if your campaign is planned to go to 12th level you don't care about abilities from 17th level and beyond. If you are willing to sacrifice the possibility of high level abilities then great, move on to step two.

Question two is where you start weighing the value of the MC abilities vs the delay in acquiring key abilities in your core class, which is what you're talking about. Picking specific levels in the classes to maximize ASIs is a key part of that process too. You look at the progressions in each class and figure out what ASIs and abilities make the most sense at what levels and plan your course approximately. Your Bard example is exactly what I'm talking about.
 

Esker

Explorer
I don't think we're that far apart, [MENTION=6993955]Fenris-77[/MENTION].

My point was simply that final build and progression need to be considered together, since the best progression toward the best final build may be worse than the best progression toward a second best final build. So since you don't necessarily want to settle on the end result first and then optimize a progression within that end result, I wouldn't say that the question about high level abilities is necessarily the first question.
 

Fenris-77

Explorer
[MENTION=6966824]Esker[/MENTION]

Well, yeah, as much as we are thinking along the same lines here, the high level ability question is the first question, or at least half of it. If you go fighter 3 and then rogue 3 to go assassin you've done two things for sure. First, you've given up levels 17 through 20 of fighter - this was was what I mentioned. You are also delaying the skills and abilities of F levels 4-6, which is what you're indexing. Both are equally important. So you need to decide if, first, you're ok giving up capstone abilities, and second, that you're ok waiting on F 4-6 to add R 1-3 first. After the initial dip is sorted, then it's a matter of planning levels and goals based on concept and some reality based stuff about how high you actually expect to play.

Does it sound like we're on the same page here? I think so.
 

Fenris-77

Explorer
But sometimes I found something interesting in other classes and my brain starts mix "what if..."
This happens to me all the time. My current mania is rebuilding stuff to make better use of the social interaction pillar for an upcoming intrigue heavy campaign.
 

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