How many Hit points does a sacred cow have?

[UngeheuerLich]

I like the way the Op is thinking. But i don´t like the idea of Armor as Pure damage reduction.

I would rather expand the "coup de grace" mechanic.

An arrow out of nowhere, a dagger against a sleeping foe, etc are cases, where the classic hp system does not really work. A hit should leave the victim seriously injured.

While I believe, ouright killing is too hard, I would like a death saving throw to avoid beeing immedieately bloodied and wounded if you were at full health before, and if you are below a certain hp treshold you immediately die.

Of course, this needs to be tested, but i believe, Hp can only become plausible, if 4e´s HP as intangible thing and hp loss as injuries somehow work hand in hand. And The new 5e hp treshold and the old coup the grace saving throw could be a good strat.

As a side effect, you could scrath the: everyone can sneak attack idea: any class who makes a backstab attempt (attacking someone without beeing noticed before) triggers the "coup the grace" mechanic. A rogue has extraordinary abilities to be unnoticed and his sneak attack damage comes into play to make him the best backstabber.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Three

 

[Libramarian]

Hitpoints have two important game effects separate from how well or poorly they simulate damage:

they give you a sense of gradual progress toward victory as you hit your opponent, rather than whiff, whiff, whiff, whiff, whiff, whiff, BAM.

they give you a resource to manage rather than your defense just being a static quality.

You have an alternative that does both of these things?

 

[steeldragons]

Ya know, this is something I don't really give a lot of thought to. My sacred cows eat only from the freshest blessed fields and strewn with offerings of silver and gold.

However...that said...HP are a sacred cow of D&D. They're not going anywhere...nor do I think they should. Of course, I'm one of those who always said "to the 9 hells with abstraction. you get hit. you get hurt. heal it or don't."

BUT! Now, after reading your thread opener...I gots tuh thinkin'...and a few things seemed to coalesce and so I'm gonna throw it out there and see what folk think/if you think this might be a useful way to...sorta...have one's sacred cow and eat the burgers too.

It has the sacred, it has some elements of the 4e "bloodied" business and should make 4e class fans happy...and help some of the "alternative damage resolution" crowd to...kinda...well...be appeased maybe.

Here's the deal:
Hit Points...
Your character has hit points, however many there are. I'll advocate (and don't think they're giving up) a "by class" hit die with constitution bonuses. Ok fine. Everyone has your starting HP? Good.

Now...when you are hit. You take damage.
The FIRST HALF of your total HP are considered those "abstract" elements: your luck, your fatigue, your morale, etc.
Any or All of this "top half" of your HP can by cured through magical healing spells or potions, BUT ALSO/OR INSTEAD through "second winding", a warlord's "inspiration" (assuming the warlord isn't going anywhere, as much as I wish it would), bardic "feel good" music, bed rest, anything, really.

When a PC reaches HALF (or goes below half in a single attack) of their total hit points 1) MORALE CHECK and 2) the PC is BLOODIED...you are now taking actual physical damage for the remainder of the battle.

For this second half of your HP a warlord can't yell you to your feet. A bard can't sing you to swing again (unless he's singing Cure Light Wounds, I guess). Second wind doesn't work. This isn't about luck or motivation or determination or "catching your breath for 5 minutes". You are HURT! You need physical, mundane or magical, full on HEALING.

Now, if you can get healed back up to your 1/2 way point or higher, a bard or warlord or your own "second wind" or "short rest" or what have you can take care of the rest.

We don't get into all of the mess of separate "Vitality" or "Health" points vs. Hit Points. It's all still HP. The game still works the same. When you hit 0 HP you're unconscious. -10 you're dead...or however they're going to work that part...that's not important. Getting to 0 HP is bad. We know this.

But the first half of your HP are the "abstract" stuff, "curable" in any fashion of any class or skill or "healing/resting mechanic", and the second half is all physical damage, only curable by actual physical healing means.

Or if you want a more "action movie" dynamic "taking all kindsa physical punishment throughout the battle" kinda game, make the abstract stuff the top 1/4...or less...or alternate 1/4's between abstract and physical (though with a decent sized party I imagine keeping track of that stuff would become quite a pain).

Wudduhyuhz think?
--SD

 

[trancejeremy]

Firstly, when you format your text like that, people like me who use white backgrounds can't read it at all.

Secondly, if hit points are out out of style and useless, why does virtually every computer game use them? Not just RPGs, but game - things like health bars are essentially forms of hit points.

And lastly, one of the things that puzzles me about the evolution of D&D over the years is that it's largely been done by its detractors. If you don't like how D&D does something, why not play one of the 1000s of other games on the market? Why try to turn D&D into something completely different?

 

[El Mahdi]

Only one Hit Point, but infinite Karmic points.

Karmic points are aquired by the slayer as a Karmic Debt, and condemns one to an endless cycle of reincarnation editions.

 

[groklynn]

as for me hit points for heroes represent their readiness for a fight. I mean - how could you become more healthy by the time?! if you're 18 it's ok but time is taking your health, not upgrades you every year. so, let's pretend, that HP's are some sort of abstraction.
but if it should be some "believable points" I'd rather have some sort of "creature points" and "level points". so, basic human being could easily be killed with a single critical stab in a vital part of a body. let's say it could be around 10 hp. so let it be the starting and ending point of humanoid beings. if your character asleep - he/she has only 10 hp's like all the human beings do. but if you are in a routine of adventures - you add your "level points", those "luck-and-stuff" thing.
the same for all the creatures. cause i think sleeping dragon could be killed with a single strike. as all the other creatures. excepting undead, constructs, etc.

 

[Libramarian]

Wudduhyuhz think?
--SD

Couple issues...I don't like fractional HP states like 50% HP = bloodied, because I prefer to think of a higher level character as having a "bigger tank of gas" rather than a "more efficient engine" if you get my meaning. I like the image of a high level character having the capacity to push themselves hard enough that they require 3 weeks rest afterwards, whereas a low level character can only push themselves enough to benefit from a few days rest.

Secondly, what does it to do to attacks forms that very obviously only affect morale/will and attack forms that very obviously only do physical harm?

Like the bard's ability to insult people (and unintelligent creatures...ohh 4e) to death -- does this no longer work on characters in bloodied state?

 

[ExploderWizard]

And lastly, one of the things that puzzles me about the evolution of D&D over the years is that it's largely been done by its detractors. If you don't like how D&D does something, why not play one of the 1000s of other games on the market? Why try to turn D&D into something completely different?

Thank you for saving me the trouble!

D&D is simple and the combat system abstract. It is what it is. When I long for the crunch of gritty smashmouth simulationist combat I have GURPS within reach. It uses active defenses, armor as DR, and a lot of things some people think D&D should be doing.

But GURPS isn't D&D and doesn't feel like D&D because it does all those things that D&D doesn't do.

 

[Greatwyrm]

Q: How many Hit points does a sacred cow have?

A: An amount appropriate to how badly the DM wants the cow dead.

If you don't like hit points, don't use them. There were one or two alternate systems in the 3e Unearthed Arcana that could be ported to just about any edition. And with 5e's promised modularity, it probably won't be long before you see a new version of it as well.