How many natural attacks can a Warshaper make?

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Absolutely, blargney, you can do that.

In fact, you can kick to the shin at whatever point in your attack routine you want (the only stipulation on attack order applies to attacks gained from a high BAB, and natural weapons are not from that source).

 

[Cabral]

That FAQ does not support your statement in the least. Flurry of blows has nothing to do with this at all and that's all that quote talks about.

You can definitely combine a natural weapon attack with a manufactured weapon attack, blargney.

It most definately does, in the least, support my statement.

The FAQ: "If the creature normally is allowed to make both weapon attacks and natural weapon attacks as part of the same full attack routine, the monk can do the same (making unarmed strikes in place of weapon attacks)."

So when are you not allowed to make both weapon attacks and natural weapon attacks as part of the same full attack routine?

Note: The Lizardfolk entry allows it to make a bite alongside it's club attack.

So yeah, it's not as strong an argument "as on pg x of the MM it says ..." and it doesn't help that in the lizardfolk examples it contradicts it by allowing a claw attack as a secondary attack.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

So when are you not allowed to make both weapon attacks and natural weapon attacks as part of the same full attack routine?

Whenever wielding the weapon does not impinge upon your ability to make natural attacks. For instance, a lizardman normally has two claw attacks. However, holding a club in one hand makes it impossible for him to use that claw as a natural weapon.

Similarly, assume an intelligent creature with a single prehensile tentacle. It normally has a tentacle natural attack. However, it can pick up and use a sword with that attack. This is a creature that cannot use natural and manufactured weapons at the same time (unless it found an unarmed strike or armor spikes somewhere ... ).

 

[Cabral]

Whenever wielding the weapon does not impinge upon your ability to make natural attacks. For instance, a lizardman normally has two claw attacks. However, holding a club in one hand makes it impossible for him to use that claw as a natural weapon.

Similarly, assume an intelligent creature with a single prehensile tentacle. It normally has a tentacle natural attack. However, it can pick up and use a sword with that attack. This is a creature that cannot use natural and manufactured weapons at the same time (unless it found an unarmed strike or armor spikes somewhere ... ).

And what happens to the second claw attack?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

He makes it as a normal secondary natural weapon attack - there's no sword there to prevent him from doing so.

If, instead, he had a two-handed weapon, he'd be denied both of his claw attacks (assuming he was wielding it an not just holding it ).

 

[Cabral]

Whoops. I just posted the correction to the Vampire thread

The lizardman has a one-handed weapon and a shield. ... so it's no help.

 

[blargney the second]

It most definately does, in the least, support my statement.

*lol*

In fact, you can kick to the shin at whatever point in your attack routine you want (the only stipulation on attack order applies to attacks gained from a high BAB, and natural weapons are not from that source).

Interesting! So is the convention of putting highest attack bonus first just that: a convention? I could go axe +7, kick to the shins +2, axe +2? I'm pretty sure I wouldn't put the KTTS in front of the first axe attack... it is a secondary attack, after all.

(If I were fighting a giant, I suppose it would be axe to the shin +7, serious stub to the toe +2, axe to the shin +2.)
-blarg

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

(laughs long and merrily)

Now you know why I haven't attempted to create a monk yet.

It sounds to me like the Warshaper (this is a vague guess!) gets one extra attack at his full bonus, then a whole mess of attacks at incredible penalties to hit (claws, horn, bite, power windows, 15,000 mile drivetrain warranty, etc. ) but with penalties of around -7 to -12.

 

[blargney the second]

It sounds to me like the Warshaper (this is a vague guess!) gets one extra attack at his full bonus, then a whole mess of attacks at incredible penalties to hit (claws, horn, bite, power windows, 15,000 mile drivetrain warranty, etc. ) but with penalties of around -7 to -12.

Actually, the penalties for secondary natural attacks are not cumulative. The primary natural attack uses full BAB to attack with full Str bonus to damage, and all secondaries are at full BAB minus 5 with half Str to damage. If there's a manufactured weapon involved, it's always primary with all its iterative BAB-derived attacks.

I think a secondary attack with a 15,000 mile drivetrain warranty would be a special case that causes 1d1 points of papercut damage, with a crit range of x9. Ever had one of those someplace vulnerable? Ouch!
-blarg