how many of powerful beings and/or high-level characters do you think is appropriate in a typical fantasy world?

[Anonym]

first of all, I must say that this is a very vague question, and Im not sure how to describe it correctly.
In a typical fantasy world (for example, the Faerun), there are all kinds of powerful beings such as dragons, liches, demons, or something even stranger and high-level characters (especially high-level spellcasters) whose power is beyond imagination or normal men and can massacre, destroy, or controll at least one city by themselves and by their own power, unless other similarly powerful beings intervene.because even in most of fantasy worlds, their average people are still just as weak and vulnerable as humans on Earth.

and unlike on Earth, these powerful beings, whatever the source of their power, have an overwhelming advantage over ordinary people not from their power, armies, or wealth, but from themselves. (Although these powerful beings usually do have great power, armies, or wealth and actively use them)

If your lord doesn't even need to call up his army, but can wipe out an entire squad with a fireball he throws, or can make you his slave with just his mind, and you, an ordinary person, have only a black powdered musket as the most powerful force you can get, then the situation you face is completely different from that of humans on Earth.if you want to rebel against your lord, you usually have to pledge youself to someone who as powerful as your lord.

this means that these powerful beings have less social and economic dependencies. a powerful great wyrm's territory might only have a poor village that raises pigs and fish for it. but that dragon is really powerful enough to take on an entire army. whether a domain is rich or not is not an indication of how powerful its lord is.

I'm not sure. but what I want to discuss is, in a world like Toril, like in the 3R era where spellcasters are almost omnipotent, how many powerful beings and high level characters are appropriate?
there are also a lot of levels among these powerful beings and high-level characters, so, to what extent is it related to the total population?
or should the number of these powerful beings be more arbitrary since their power is not actually based on the size of territory and population like the rulers on Earth.?

for example, a barren and primitive world,just like Athas of the Darksun series, with a relatively sparse human population and harsh environment, but with a very large number of high-level characters above level 20, and the common people as a whole only outnumber them by 10 times or even less———— the ruler, and a ruler of a fairly high rank (at least a lord), only outnumbers their subjects by 10 times. this is completely impossible on Earth.
in nature, carnivores must be 10 times less than their prey, and rulers within human societies need much much more subjects to serve them (this is the case on Earth). but in a world with magic and various supernatural powers, the situation may be pretty different.for such worlds, the source of rulers' power comes more from themselves, and less from their territories,army and subjects (although still important), which may mean more room for tyrants and Caligulas than the Earth.

 

[TiQuinn]

The 2nd edition Player’s Option High Level Campaigns had a demographic breakdown from level 1 to level 18 that broke down like this:

An 18th level NPC was 1 per every million in overall population.

17th level had 2 per every million, 16th level had 4 per every million, 15th had 8 per million and so on.

Kind of off the cuff but would probably be suitable for most purposes. I imagine that a setting like Forgotten Realms would immediately break that rule.

 

[Krachek]

Enough to challenge the party, and not too much to make the party useless.

 

[GreatestHonor]

Depends on the nature of the setting.

No/very low magic worlds can probably only handle a handful per continent. Each archmage and champion would be powerful enough to take over a city with little substantial threat of being overthrown. Incredibly old dragons and such could rule entire swaths of land casually. To many and these beings are competing with each other so much, that every one is dead within a few battles.

Low magic worlds could perhaps handle a few more, as once an “age” a band of people could overthrow or even kill one of them. In this world, the high-level mages and most dragons are still almost untouchable.

Worlds with “average” levels of magic start to treat high-level characters (mages, champions, etc.) more like legendary figures rather than unconquerable beings. With enough grit and preperation (or pure force), they can be destroyed. Dragons and similar creatures are still noteworthy, but there are probably more than a few tales of dragon slayers in these worlds.

High magic worlds will treat all such beings more like extremely prominent figureheads in their field. A 20th level NPC is more akin a celebrity than a nation’s ruler or rumored to be a deity. At this range, dragons are still mighty, but only the oldest of them seem to be substantial threats. Archfiends and such still remain legendary as they are a plane or two away.

Epic level and mythic level magic worlds throw it all into a blender. NPCS being 20th level might be considered above average or even just middle-of-the-pack. More than a few times in a single lifetime, apocalypses are started and averted regularly, fiend lords overthrown more than once, and dragons being slain happens often. Gods may have a heavy hand in such worlds, as the people lone may threaten to tear it all apart if not supervised. In these lands, legends and myths are created every season, and many still walk their worlds.

For a world like Faerun, i would put it somewhere between middle and high level magic, treating the many published high-level entities as all there is.

 

[Alzrius]

Honestly, this is the sort of question I feel should be in a DMG guide to world-building, ideally with some sample metrics for answering this question and examining how they help to shape the campaign dynamic.

Like, suppose you say that 20th level is the highest level achievable. Now say that there are only ten such individuals in the game world. Finally, say that this number doubles each level down (e.g. there are twenty 19th-level individuals, forty 18th-level individuals, eighty 17th-level individuals, etc.). At that point, you can start allocating who the movers and shakers are, what they're doing and what goals they have, while also keeping some unassigned until you think they'd reasonably come up over the course of play, etc.

 

[GMMichael]

I'm not sure. but what I want to discuss is, in a world like Toril, like in the 3R era where spellcasters are almost omnipotent, how many powerful beings and high level characters are appropriate?
there are also a lot of levels among these powerful beings and high-level characters, so, to what extent is it related to the total population?
or should the number of these powerful beings be more arbitrary since their power is not actually based on the size of territory and population like the rulers on Earth.?

I'd look to supers to answer these questions, and I think their general response would be, "enough of one to counter the other."

The number's going to go up and down, one side will hold sway while the other fluctuates, and the poor commoners will suffer in the meantime.

It's complicated, dependent, and yes, arbitrary. Which is why I put a cap on my supers. If a single power source pokes its head above the rest, it gets snuffed. Hmm. Which is a pretty logical excuse for the overused locked-away-lich plotline . . .

 

[aco175]

There is enough for the plot of the game, which is an non-answer but it also does not really matter. They are used to be a ballance to the players. Say, the PCs start killing everyone in the kingdom because they are now 10th level and more powerful that everyone, the DM had a tool to bring in a hit squad of the King to take out the problem and suddenly there is an adventuring band of 16th level PCs around. Same if the 15th level PCs need a mentor to learn something or need a sage to cast a spell they need that is 9th level. Bing, the DM makes something that fills the plot and the world has one.

I ran a few campaigns taking place in Phandalin. The first group took over the abandoned castle and became local leaders. Now, the next campaign either has 12th level PCs in the village or I need to have them adventuring someplace else to have a campaign where new PCs can take care of local threats. I had the higher level PCs (now NPCs) available, but did not use them to take on the threats facing the other group. One was available to get knowledge from and be a minor questgiver, but not to take from the new campaign.

 

[Tonguez]

As many as are needed to tell the story of your PCs.

Which is to say that it depends on the nature of those beings and the world in general but the PCs must always be the focus.

So my worlds tend to be animist and so have lots of local spirits acting as genius loci and some places are actively ruled by powerful creatures (Volcano giants, Dragons, Ogre Mages, Fey Lords etc). Spirits though are usually bound in some way and powerful lords are too busy to deal with every petty annoyance which means PCs can act without being noticed until the get called on for aid, with the powerful being becoming questgiver or providing boons rather than just being antagonist.
5e introducing Lair and Regional Effects has been a great as I can build regional lairs around these genius loci and make them an encounter area for PCs to explore whether they choose to interact with the powerful creature or not

 

[kigmatzomat]

This really is a world/setting design choice. Even within the flavor of a setting, the power-level can be shifted.

E.g. Eberron has multiple gateways where evil can emerge at any time. The biggest army that has ever emerged and been defeated was:

Low level setting
A couple thousand cr0 lemures, a few hundred cr1 imps/quasits, a couple dozen cr2 spiked devils and a cr5 cambion general

Mid level setting
thousands of cr3 bearded devils, hundreds of cr5 cambions, dozens of cr8 chain devils and a cr11 horned devil general

High-level setting
Thousands of cr5 cambion infantry, hundreds of cr8 chain devil junior officers , dozens of cr11 horned devil lieutenants, a few cr12 erineys captains and a cr13 raksahsa general

Very high level setting
Thousands of cr5 cambion cavalry plus thousands of cr8 chain devil infantry ,hundreds of cr11 horned devil lieutenants, dozens of cr12 erineys captains, dozens of cr13 raksahsa spies , dozens of cr14 ice devils commanders, a cr20 pit fiend general

Each of these meet the general flavor of the setting (dangerous fiendish army) but it sets the tone for how powerful the setting needs to be to continue to exist.

It can also be a plot driver. As in "we faced a pit fiend's army ten years ago and we won....but all but a few of our most powerful heroes were killed. We have no chance against another army even half as powerful."

Alternately: "the Pitfiend was routed handily...and now the self-proclaimed 'Gods Among Men' demand fealty and obedience. "

Or "Our forces defeat the evil armies every time. But this time they've sent a few dozen shapeshifters and corrupters to defeat us from within, slowly. And none of the current heroes believe it."

Which gets to the answer to the OP: there is no "typical" setting. It can all work. Just try to make it believable and rational.

 

[Golden Bee]

14, with one murdered yesterday. Mysterious!