How many people are buying less books for 4E than previous editions?

[avin]

Maybe forgetting something but should be like:

3.0: DMG, PHB, FRCS, MM and MM2 + Creature Collection I and II
3.5: PHB, MM revised, MM3, MM4, MM5
4E: PHB, PHB2, DMG, DMG2, MM, MM2, the book of planes, the book of the undeads, Creature Collection 4E + DDI subscription.

Will buy: Dark Sun, all MMs, Plane Below, the book of upper planes.

DDI fills most of my crunch needs.

 

[Stoat]

I've been DM'ing 4E since a month or two after it came out, and I like the system.

That said, I'm buying fewer books because of the DDI.

Another factor that I haven't seen touched on is this: In 3.X, I'd pick up Sword & Fist or Complete Mage or whatever because I could use the feats, prestige classes, new spells, etc. etc. to create cool NPC's. I don't do that in 4E, because the paradigm for building NPC's has changed.

 

[malkav666]

I started out buying strong in 4e (bought PHB 1&2, AV, the power books right up to arcane, open grave, manual of the planes, FR (both books), and the first two adventures). I could not get it to float with my primary group. We ran it hard for about a year, and finally just sat down and talked about it and decided as a group that it really was not a game we wished to continue playing. I played with my alt group with 4e for a few more months, then they gave me a call one weekend and said that they had decided that 4e was no longer a game they wished to play (said they were going back to 2e with some 3 peppered in and told me they would understand if I wanted to leave but they hoped I did not. I stuck around).

So after that I started trying to get a RPGA game running at the local FLGS, with little to no interest from locals. So I quit buying the stuff and started running my core group through Dungeonaday.com, which we converted to Pathfinder rules when it was released.

Haven't really looked back since I left. I still buy a couple packs of whatever tiles WOTC is putting out, and I still buy miniatures (especially like being able to see one, it encourages me to buy more than one pack per set), and occasionally I still even pick a couple of precons of whatever version of magic is in print to play with my pals (though this is only about once a year, with some years skipped. It has been like that for us since the URZA block, so that has been going on for a few years).

I don't really have any interest in buying anything else for 4e. Although if they released a giant module going from 1-30 or a compilation of the current path in a single unit I might buy that to use when it is time to teach my boy to play D&D, as I think 4e is a fabulous way to get into the hobby, and would be perfect for a game with children, as it is kind of a stepping stone from boardgames to more complex/robust systems (that's not a me saying 4e sucks comment, just that its not all that complex and its pretty easy to pick up).

But other than that WOTC has the money that they will get from me on 4e D&D. I will keep an eye out for 5e. I may or may not buy depending on how it is designed (if it is very similar to 4e I think I will end up skipping it as well). But I am not bitter about it and will definitely be on the lookout for new stuff from wizards. I am a long time customer, and even though it is obvious that the new edition isn't really for me, I am not going to quit them and never look at their stuff again over one failed expedition. I will keep looking and if they start releasing stuff I want to buy, I have no issue about getting back on board.

On a final note, I think it is fair to mention that if PDFs were available of old edition materials and priced fairly I would not mind getting some legal copies of a lot of that stuff (with good bookmarks no less) for my back collection. So I would also be willing to open my wallet for that venture.

love,

malkav

 

[Herschel]

I bought exactly ZERO 3.5 books and only purchased the 3.0 PH, though I won a couple in raffles or was given a couple. I have a lot of 1E/2E books, but most were picked up used over the years. I think I bought about 6 handbooks, the 2E PH, DMG and MM Binder new. My 4E purchases new are way more than either.

 

[AllisterH]

I am buying less books. However, I am also a DDI subscriber, so I don't need as many books.

THIS.

If you have DDI, really, the only books I think you would need to buy are the following if you're primarily a DM.

PHB1, DMG1 & 2, Open Grave, Manual of the Planes, the 2 Campaign Guides, Draconomicon

If you're primarily a player with DDI
PHB1 and the 2 player's guide.

Everything else I find for myself much more accessible either through the compendium, the character builder or the monster builder.


Really, if you have a DDI subscription, what are you actually missing? Epecially given that DRAGON has had some very good mixture of fluff with its crunch (for example, the fluff in the Warden essentials article is much better than anything in the PHB2)

 

[WalterKovacs]

I am buying more:

In 3.5, I purchased most (not all) of the Complete Books, limiting myself to ones that had options I wanted to try out. For 4e, I'm getting all the powers book. Part of the reason here is that, most games I was involved in would start at low levels, and may not necessarily last until high levels. With X Power books, you get new options for level 1 characters, and quite a few of them. With the Complete books you may get one or two new base classes, but a lot of the book will be prestige classes I may not get around to playing, and some feats. If there was a character builder in 3.5 I would easily skip most of the splat books because the feats or spells would be available there instead of spread over tons of books.

Another reason for the increase in books purchased is that I'm DM'ing 4e which I wasn't doing for 3.5. This means that I'm buying the "DM" books like the Monster Manuals, Open Grave, etc.

The 4e books are more focused than the 3.5 books (for example, the books are obviously for players or for DM's, while a number of books in 3.5 contained player crunch, but also a lot of DM only stuff (like their undead book).

EDIT:

As for my reasons for buying lots of books despite having DDi, it's partially because I'm a DM for a group that doesn't have DDi, and many of them don't get their own books, so it allows them an opportunity to build their own characters. Also, in some cases, the group will be leveling up "on the fly", or spending their money on treasure, etc ... and having the books at the table can help them out as well.

 

[AllisterH]

That's a good point WalterKovacs.

If you're a 4E player primarily, is there ANY reason to pick up Open Grave?

Conversely with the 3.e book Libris Mortis, you got nice player oriented material such as the Dread Necromancer(an entire base class), prestige classes, spells and feats.

Strange, I wonder why WOTC has so clearly separated the player and DM material....wouldn't this automatically mean that Libris Mortis would sell significantly more than Open Grave?

As a buyer, it's GREAT, but still, from WOTC's viewpoint?

 

[karlindel]

I primarily DM, but I also play.

For 3.5, I picked up the Core Books, the Complete Class Books, a couple of Races Books, Eberron Campaign Setting, some Eberron Supplements, and a couple of others.

For 4e I have the Core Books I and II, AV, the Powers Books that are out so far, Open Grave, Draconomicon I, Manual of the Planes, Eberron PG, Eberrong CG, and Eberron Adventure. I don't plan on getting AV2 or the FR Books. I plan on getting any DM fluff books that I think will be useful (looking forward to Dark Sun), future PHBs, DMGs, and future Powers Books (assuming they continue at the current quality level). Future MMs and AVs I might consider picking up, depending on the contents, but I use the DDI a lot, and so I don't find them as useful as I once did.

I agree with WalterKovacs that the 4e Powers books are more useful than the Complete books from 3.5.

AllisterH, I think that one thing WOTC gets is that it cuts down on bloat issues for the system, which ultimately could result in more sales. With options spread across too many books, it makes the system seem overly complicated, and increases the buy-in required for new players. It's a lot easier to get someone into the game if you tell them they can play with just a PHB (and possibly PHB2/3 if they want one of those classes, etc.) and they might pick up an X Powers book if they want to see some other options, than it is if you tell them they could play with the PHB, but to get a really good character they need to have various feats and options scattered through a half dozen books, particularly if some of those books have only one or two things that would interest them. Also, focussing the material makes it more likely that someone interested in the material will purchase it. As a DM, I am more likely to purchase Open Grave, which has a lot of DM focussed material for me to use, than to purchase Libris Mortis, which has a lot of player options in it, diluting it's usefulness to me as a DM since I am not likely to use those options.

 

[Cadfan]

I buy no books because of the DDI. Or do I buy all books because of the DDI? That's an interesting conundrum.

I have bought some adventures and dungeon tiles though, and some system neutral Paizo accessories.

 

[WalterKovacs]

That's a good point WalterKovacs.

If you're a 4E player primarily, is there ANY reason to pick up Open Grave?

Conversely with the 3.e book Libris Mortis, you got nice player oriented material such as the Dread Necromancer(an entire base class), prestige classes, spells and feats.

Strange, I wonder why WOTC has so clearly separated the player and DM material....wouldn't this automatically mean that Libris Mortis would sell significantly more than Open Grave?

As a buyer, it's GREAT, but still, from WOTC's viewpoint?

With DDi, a book like Libris Mortis would sell horribly. It would be less useful for DM's, so they'd value it less, and it would be very worthless to PCs, when the small ammount of PC crunch would be in DDi anyway. It seems they've taken the "small PC crunch" out of the book and put it into Dragon.

I doubt Libris Mortis and the 'locale' books (the one about desert and on the sea, ec) did very well with the mixture of PC and DM information. While it would conceivably have "something for everyone", it just made it generally useless. 4e books may be trying to be "better for the buyer" to encourage them to buy, since the attempts at making books that everyone can use may have ended up with books that no one bothered to use.