How many PrC's in your campaign?

[Chimera]

Pretty much the same solution. Short list of pre-approved PrCs that fit into the campaign world, a few ideas of ones that I would NOT allow, then a big list of all the others I haven't bothered with, but would think about if a player asked for it.

My homebrew materials make clear that I consider the ahievement of a PrC to be just that - an ACHIEVEMENT. That I expect you to notify me well in advance and work with me on it's obtainment. It's not something where you just say "I went up a level, so I guess I'll take a level of Spellsword" or anything like that. (But then, I do the same with multi-classing - you have to train in the new class, not just declare you're taking it.)

Some PrCs are essentially Invitation-Only. You don't wake up one day and tell the other Templars that you're now one of them. You have to work at belonging to their organization and be accepted by them.

 

[DragonLancer]

However, there are other PrC's that I feel are appropriate anywhere. I must qualify this that these other PrC's are still limited, but not in the same way that the above category is.

[Snip...]

For example, any world that has both fighters and mages has eldrich knights available. I may tweak the PrC ever so slightly to represent flavor but that is usually purely description - the mechancis would stay the same. Another example, any world that has mounted knights as a concept, will have the cavalry charger PrC. Another example, any world that has dwarves that are traditionally mountain dwelling folk will have dwarven defenders; any world that has elven "fighter/mages" will have bladesingers, etc.

*Nods* This is what I mean by specialist PrC's. As I see it, if a player wants his character to be a mounted knight or warrior, he can do that with core classes and feats. There is no need to have a PrC except to give new powers/abilities.

I won't go into my dislike for the combo classes (Eldritch Knight, Mystic Theurge, et al), but the same goes for them. Now saying that, I am considering allowing the combo classes just to see if they will be as overpowered as I think they will be. But thats a different topic.

Oh, and I love the telphone idea, and how you got it to work. Wouldn't go in my games, but a fun idea.

 

[Sejs]

How many PrCs are there in my campaign?

Available? Too many to count. However, the trick is that you can't just spontaneously sprout levels in the class even if you meet the skill/feat/etc requirements. You generally need to find someone to train you. There are of course rare exceptions in those PrCs that are pretty much fully self-contained, such as the Survivor PrC from Savage Species. You don't so much need someone to train you at that, as you just need to 'go native' for an extended period. But aside from those sorts, it's no spring picnic. Want to be a Shadowdancer? Track one down and convince him to take you on as an apprentice. Want to be an Assassin? Gaining guild membership can be a bit of a trial. So on and so forth. Just being so tall doesn't automatically get you on the ride.

Currently active in my game right now? None, though to be fair the campaign is only at 5th, cusping 6th level. Actually, I take that back - one of the NPCs that works with the group as the middleman for their patron is a Wizard (Diviner) / Loremaster. So there's him. But for PCs, there arn't any at the moment. The catfolk ranger has expressed interest in Shadowdancer for sometime a bit down the road, and the amnesiac rashemi earth genasi barbarian was looking longingly at Shou Disciple, but changes in his lifestyle have pretty much removed his presence from the gaming table. New appartments, girlfriends and hobbies tend to do that sort of thing, heh. *shrug* Other than that, not much on the PrC front.

 

[the Jester]

Well, I disallow anything I don't like for reasons of being too powerful, the wrong flavor for my campaign or being too similar to another concept (I dislike unnecessary redundancy).

I've actually gone through and listed which prcs are available from several sources for the players imc- to wit:

Any of the prestige classes from the following books are allowed: Dungeon Master’s Guide, Frostburn, Libris Mortis, Manual of the Planes.

Prestige Classes Allowed from Complete Warrior:
Bear warrior, bladesinger, cavalier, dark hunter, dervish, drunken master, exotic weapon master, eye of Gruumsh, gnome giant-slayer, halfling outrider, hulking hurler, hunter of the dead, invisible blade, justiciar, knight of the chalice, knight protector, master thrower, master of the unseen hand, mindspy, nature’s warrior, occult slayer, order of the bow initiate, ravager, reaping mauler, spellsword, stonelord, tattooed monk, war chanter, warshaper.

Prestige Classes Allowed from Complete Divine:
Black flame zealot, blighter, church inquisitor, consecrated harrier, contemplative, divine crusader, divine oracle, entropomancer, evangelist, geomancer, holy liberator, hospitaler, rainbow servant, sacred fist, seeker of the misty isle, shining blade of Heironius, ur-priest, void disciple, warpriest.

Prestige Classes Allowed from Complete Arcane:
Acolyte of the skin, alienist, argent savant, blood magus, effigy master, elemental savant, enlightened fist, fatespinner, geometer, green star adept, initiate of the sevenfold veil, master transmogrifist, mindbender, , seeker of the song, sublime chord.

Prestige Classes Allowed from Complete Adventurer:
Animal lord, beastmaster, bloodhound, daggerspell mage, daggerspell shaper, dread pirate, dungeon delver, exemplar, Fochlucan lyrist, ghost-faced killer, highland stalker, maester, master of many forms, nightsong enforcer , nightsong infiltrator , ollam, shadowbane inquisitor, shadowmind, spymaster, streetfighter, tempest, thief-acrobat, vigilante, wild plains outrider.

Prestige Classes Allowed from 3.0 Splatbooks:
Bane of infidels, candle caster, devoted defender, fist of Hextor , foe hunter, forsaker, ghostwalker , gladiator, hexer, king/queen of the wild, lasher, master of chains, oozemaster, outlaw of the crimson road, royal explorer, tribal protector, verdant lord, warmaster, watch detective, weapon master, windrider.

There are more available of course, in all the other sourcebooks that I have and am still evaluating.

As for what's seen use by pcs or their cohorts in my campaign:

Healer (homebrewed)
Assassin
Contemplative
Divine Oracle
Paraelementalist (homebrewed)
Warrior of Chaos (homebrewed)
Templar of Coila (revised templar from DotF)
Archmage
Freedom Fighter (homebrewed)
Order of the Bow Initiate
Invisible Blade
Warmind
Knight of the Chalice
Dragon Disciple
Tattooed Monk
Half-Dragon Paragon (not exactly a prc, but hey...)
Mindspy
Eldritch Knight
Blackguard
Jester (homebrewed)
Thaumaturge

Might be more, that's all I can think of off-hand though.

 

[Gaiden]

*Nods* This is what I mean by specialist PrC's. As I see it, if a player wants his character to be a mounted knight or warrior, he can do that with core classes and feats. There is no need to have a PrC except to give new powers/abilities.

I won't go into my dislike for the combo classes (Eldritch Knight, Mystic Theurge, et al), but the same goes for them. Now saying that, I am considering allowing the combo classes just to see if they will be as overpowered as I think they will be. But thats a different topic.

Oh, and I love the telphone idea, and how you got it to work. Wouldn't go in my games, but a fun idea.

*Smiles at the compliment* Thanks for the props . I was rather proud of myself and thought that might entertain the board's interlopers. I am not sure how much you have seen the combo classes in action (it sounds like you haven't) and I am not sure how well you know the mechanics of the game and balance issues. I will preface what I am about to say with reference to gestalt characters. Gestalt characters appear to be ridiculous to any non-newbie. Experienced players wouldn't want such characters (I would imagine) because you would be so powerful that "challenges" would cease to actually be challenging. At least, it would appear that way. I would predict that actually gestalt characters would not be as powerful as you mgiht think. I still would never allow them - all I am saying is that appearances can be deceiving. What appears to be brokenly powerful, may not be as powerful as appears on paper.

The eldrich knight is sort of the epitome of this. Compare a straight Paladin 10 /Sorcerer 10 to a Paladin 5/Sorcerer 5/Eldrich Knight 10. Compared to a single classed Paladin or Sorcerer, both the core class combo and PrC combo are underpowered. The Pal 10/Sor 10 has a BAB of only +15 and can only cast 5th level spells which, even with practiced spellcaster will always be lower than the CL of his opponents (meaning dispelling will almost always work if nothing else). Even the Pal 5/Sor 5/E.K. 10 is less powerful than either straight class. To make this combo really work, I would go Pal 4, Sor 6, E.K. 10 to get divine might from the turns, and the ability to get 8th level spells while maintaing a reasonably high caster level (w/P.SpC). Perhaps the only way you'll be convinced is by actually seeing how much the 2E multiclass PrC tracks suck in game. I have seen a monk/psion, rogue/wizard, and fighter/wizard all of which blew hairy chunks. The characters were utterly worthless in combat situations at low levels (1-8) and the players never felt like they ever did anything special. In time, their combos would somewhat balance out, but even then, they would always be behind the eight ball.

I would be lying if I said that I never play class combos. In fact, my favorite character concepts are all combos: A fighter/sorcerer/blood magus/black guard, a pal/sorc/E.K., a monk/cler/S.F., a wizard/candlecaster/fighter/bladesinger...I could go on. I have scores of special NPC's designed that capitalize on these combos. Typically, if prepared, a multiclass spellcaster can increase his other class's potential to a significant enough degree to overcome the drawbacks. It is important to recognize that this is all well and good for BBEG's who have plenty of time to prepare, to ambush, and to be warned of the goodguys attacking their fortress. However, many times none of the above will be possible for the heroes.

In short, I would not be too harsh on the multiclass PrC's - they are really not that powerful.

 

[Turanil]

So I'm just wondering how you decide and how many you allow currently?

My precedent setting had prestige classes chosen to represent specific factions and organizations of the campaign world. My next semi-homebrew has 14 prestige classes, chosen primarily because I have already written them, but tweaked to fit in the ambiance. However, they do not reflect specific organizations anymore.

 

[Gaiden]

What has a Dwarven Defender to do with mountain dwarves?

The entire purpose of immovability power is to protect the dwarven heartland - do you think not moving would be beneficial outside? Dwarven Defenders are mechanically designed to safeguard crucial entrances/exits by physically interposing themselves between those they are protecting and those that are attempting to harm those they are protecting. They have good AC's, and can withstand a lot of punishment while at the same time dishing out the pain. If the enemy can just move around or above them their immovability power is pretty much useless. In fact, I have only seen one person ever take the PrC for that reason (not moving is pretty useless if your opponent withdraws or moves around you) and he took it for roleplaying reason only.

The Dwarven Defender is almost exclively an NPC PrC in my worlds - even Grakin (especially Grakin).

 

[Bigwilly]

Any, but only with DM approval

With all the splat books and third party material there are more PrCs than I can keep track of. I will let the PCs take any PrC they want on two conditions:

1. I have checked it out for degree of broken-ness
2. I feel that it fits with their character concept.

So no taking a couple of levels of this and a couple of levels of that so they can get X attacks per round or yadda, yadda, yadda special abilities.

That means that in my currently on hold homebrew, the party currently consists of:

human wiz/fire elemental savant - 'son' of an efreet
dwarf ftr/clr/mighty contender of kord - slightly broken PrC but fits the character so well
elf pal/anointed knight - found hilt of a holy avenger
dwarf ftr/brb/sor - looking to replace sorcerer levels, hopefully with HB aspect of snake PrC
gnome ill/wiz - has threatened to take some shadowdancer levels later

This group have faced off against only a handful of NPCs with PrCs - mainly because they are a pain to stat out - inlcuding some sorcerer/blue dragon disciples, a wizard/oozemistress and a wight fighter/blackguard.

Bigwilly

 

[mhacdebhandia]

My general philosophy is to allow any prestige class which fits into the context of the setting. However, as there are prestige classes written for different purposes, there are different ways to qualify for prestige classes.

Some, such as the Elemental Savant, I consider the sort of path that anyone sufficiently devoted to mastering spells of one particular element could follow independently. The same goes for most "multiclass facilitators" such as the Eldritch Knight or the Mystic Theurge; I consider those prestige classes pretty much freely-accessible to anyone who "works hard enough" at mastering the disparate skillsets of the classes in question, where "works hard enough" is code for "fulfils the prerequisites".

In a way, I consider that type of prestige class to be a patch for the lack of a base class which adequately represents the fighter-mage (or whatever) archetype in a fashion which makes it mechanically competitive with other classes. From one perspective, I consider it a shame that very few such base classes exist - though, for instance, Monte Cook's mageblade from Arcana Unearthed/Evolved is very well-designed, it relies for balance on a hierarchy of spell power within spell levels which D&D lacks, so it's difficult to adapt without simply resorting to unsatisfying measures such as "secondary" spellcasting a la the ranger, paladin, and so on.

From another perspective, though, I tend to view both base and prestige classes as simply tools for the mechanical realisation of a character concept - less the rules embodiments of archetypes and more a set of firmly-defined but not entirely immutable ability packages. In that sense . . . it doesn't matter that you need a prestige class to make a fighter-mage "work", because it's all just manipulation of numbers anyway.

Anyway!

The second category of prestige classes in the worlds I invent tend to be the sort of thing which require a master-student relationship, but not necessarily anything more formal than that. For instance, the Drunken Master prestige class could be achieved by an interested character simply by encountering (or seeking out) an existing master of the form and accepting (or persuading her to offer) training. There is a roleplaying requirement that one find a teacher to set you on the path, but nothing like a formal group to which the master belongs.

The third category are those tied very strongly to in-game factions - religious institutions, governments, and other organisations (such as thieves' guilds and orders of assassins) who divulge their secret skills and techniques only to their trusted initiates.

When you look at what prestige classes are like, I think it's clear that (whether you consider it good or ill) many of them simply aren't designed to support organisations. There's nothing about the Tempest as written, for example, that makes it seem particularly tied to any actual group. You can, of course, make it the exclusive fighting style of an order of highland warriors on the bleak moors of the North, or the signature of a famous gladiatorial school in the heart of the Empire, but in and of the class itself there's no need for any such association.

The reason why I permit anything which fits in my world is fairly simple - given that I treat base classes, prestige classes, feats, et cetera as tools, I don't hesitate to use whatever tools I have at my disposal. I don't see the point of sticking to socket wrenches when I could also get good use out of a set of screwdrivers - and we can all think of many uses for screwdrivers that socket wrenches just can't fulfil.

As to what "fits in my world", I usually begin with a relatively conservative list of things I'm interested in representing in my world - which is dominated by "multiclass patches" like the Arcane Trickster and "schtick monkeys" like the Tempest - and remain open to any prestige class a player brings me. What I disallow outright are things with the wrong flavour - no Cavaliers in a world without a tradition of heavily armoured noble knights, for instance.

 

[Quasqueton]

0

The vast majority of them are unnecessary. Many of them bring too much mechanical complication into the game. And some are unbalanced for a normal game.

The concept of the prestige class mechanic is cool. But the actual application varies wildly from class to class. The best prestige classes can be mimicked by just role playing your character as the class.

Quasqueton