How many Shadows are too many?

[Stalker0]

If the cleric casts one death ward however, someone in the party becomes immune to these creatures and could toe to toe with tons of them.

 

[Kalendraf]

For the record, in my last campaign, the party consisted of 6 characters around 11th level. We were heading thru Hell in Freeport which can really be a killer adventure if the party isn't careful. In one encounter, there were 8 shadows that were hiding in the walls of a narrow passageway. The lead party member (rogue, IIRC) was a few feet ahead searching for traps. Suddenly the shadows swarmed him, and they had drained him into shadow-dom before the rest of the party could react. Had it been even one less shadow, the guy probably would have lived, but with 8, they got in enough attacks with flanking bonuses to hit him. Otherwise, he had one of the better touch attack AC's due to his high dex and other equipment.

With the way the party had dispatched other undead in previous encounters, I really didn't worry too much about this lone encounter. But it was so deviously placed that it caught them completely off-guard and toasted this PC. This wasn't a glorious death, and there really wasn't much that the player could have done to prevent it. As a player, this is the type of death that would infuriate me. As a DM, I don't like to kill PCs that way either. It's too much like a lightning bolt from the heavens crashing down and killing them w/o recourse. My suggestion is to be somewhat careful with how many shadows you toss at the party. If you're going to throw 8 or more at them, I'd recommend at least some kind of subtle clue as to the pending danger somewhat so that they can take some kind of countermeasures.

 

[gtJormungand]

If the cleric casts one death ward however, someone in the party becomes immune to these creatures and could toe to toe with tons of them.

Deathward does not protect against temporary or permanent ability damage.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Deathward does not protect against temporary or permanent ability damage.

BZZZZT

Deathward protects against all negative energy effects.
The touch of a shadow is a negative energy effect.

On another note - how did the rogue get surprised by those shadows - he should have a decent spot check, and the shadows all only have a +12 hide in shadows. He should have seen at least one of them in time to avoid being surprised.

And even if he was surprised, he'd have kept his dex bonus due to uncanny dodge, meaning that his touch AC should have been at full strength. I'd expect a touch ac of about 20+, meaning the flanking shadows need 15 or better to hit, and only around 2 of them should have made contact.

Assuming a normal strength, 2 shadows could well kill, but are unlikely to.

So it seems like your player got real unlucky - he failed 8 spot checks against moderate numbers, or he rolled badly on initiative, then the shadows rolled well and he died. Same thing happens with goblins at level 1 every other campaign.

 

[gtJormungand]

Deathward protects against all negative energy effects.
The touch of a shadow is a negative energy effect.

I never saw that part. Thanks for letting me know.

It's just those wraiths that you have to look out for now, as their abilities do not mention anything about negative energy.

 

[Wolffenjugend]

When trying to determine how many shadows you need, I suggest not setting a total number but instead use waves of shadows (i.e. 6 per wave). Then, you can gauge how many waves you'll need as the battle progresses. If the battle is going well, add more waves. If it's going poorly, cut back. You just have to be careful about the last wave can if you misjudge it, you can still have a TPK.

 

[jgbrowning]

I did two waves of 11 shadows vrs. 12th levelers. Tough, but exciting.

joe b.

 

[der_kluge]

My party is full of chickens!

I sent in a wave of 8 - 4 pairs from each of the four cardinal directions through doors to attack. This was wave 1. Wave 1 took one of the fighters down 5, another PC down 4, and the cleric got hit twice that took him to a 6 strength (one potential swipe away from death).

They killed that wave, and then a second wave came, and the cleric burned his greater turning (from the Sun domain) and destroyed all 8 of them with a really good roll. Then they high-tailed it out of there to rest up in a couple of rope tricks so that they could reevaluate their spell selections.

Now that the cleric has plenty of restoration spells at the ready, and the wizard has memorized a few undead-affecting spells, I won't have any qualms with hitting them with a larger group of shadows, and some wraiths and spectres next time.

Did I mention I put Con-draining Green Slime and Yellow Mold in this dungeon as well?

 

[Sejs]

If the cleric casts one death ward however, someone in the party becomes immune to these creatures and could toe to toe with tons of them.

At which point they start hiding in the floor or ceiling. Being incorporeal can be pesky that way.


Why fight fair when you can win?

 

[Cerubus Dark]

So, I've got this party of 11th level bad-asses, and I've been trying to figure out how to inflict massive amounts of pain upon them. Several of them have insane armor classes (like 33 when buffed) and so trying to hit that is difficult.

So, I was thinking about shadows. Shadows only need a touch attack, and their strength drain attack is nasty, nasty. So, I was thinking, "wow, wouldn't it be scary for them to explore this ancient dungeon and come across a room full of shadows."

And then reality set in - that's a few rounds away from a TPK, dumbass! Because you can't stop a shadow! With a normal creature, you can throw up a wall of force (a favorite tactic among the party's sorcerer) and block them off, but a shadow can just seep into the ground or ceiling and come up right below you. Which is cool for me, but if one of the players gets hit like more than 3 times by a shadow the player is looking at insta-death, which is not cool for them.

By the same token, the party has access to area effect spells like fireball, so they could empty out a room of shadows, and the cleric has greater turning, so he could get rid of a fair amount easily as well.

So, I was thinking that I could have them come in waves and waves. The first few waves would be dispatched easily, and then as they use more and more resources getting rid of them using AE spells and turn undead checks, once they run out of those, then they have to deal with them one-on-one, and then that could be scary.

So, how many shadows would be a reasonable number for me to throw at a party like this such that when they are done, everyone in the party has a single-digit strength, and no spells, and no turn undeads left. It would be cool if it got the point where the sorcerer had to resort to beating at the shadows with a stick because he was tapped out.

The problem, of course, is that if anyone goes to 0 str, they become a shadow in 1d4 rounds, and that's not cool. So, I want to avoid that if possible.

Evil Idea

Spoiler

Have 6 shadows with a mirror image maxed out! They will think there is 36 shadows in the room! Plus as an added bit of fun you can have minor illusions on the walls to make it look as if more are starting to apper!

Hehe, the party will waste time on the "shadows" and get beaten by the real ones