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How many temples in a community?

Does the culture have congregational worship? If not that's going to affect architecture and layout. In Hinduism, Buddhism, and Shintoism worship at a temple is an individual affair. One enters a temple, makes an offering, prays, and then goes. The staff is there to answer questions, offer sacrifices, and maintain the facilities. They are there to serve the god or gods and provide individual instruction when asked, not to sermonize (that's a street corner activity, if the culture supports it) or guide the laity enmasse. It means a temple does not need as much space. It also means more of what is built can be turned over to the service of the god or gods. In such cultures temples proper are impressive affairs, designed and built to overawe. The message here is very clear; you present yourself to greatness, show some respect.

Under this scheme of things even a rich town of 2,000 won't have even a single temple. Unless it was the destination of major pilgrimages. It would have shrines instead. Smaller locations requiring less support. Shinto and Buddhist shrines in Japan are a good example of this. Very often community supported places of worship where rites are performed and individuals go to pay homage, sacrifice, and pray. In any culture wih household gods there will be house shrines, with the head of the house performing the role of priest.

A shrine may be a small affair, or a grand edifice approaching a temple in size. In some cases referring to something as a shrine instead of as a temple may be more a matter of tradition than anything else. One god might be worshipped there, or many.

BTW, D&D's treatment of evil gods is an artifact of the Christian view of evil. Other faiths tend to be less hard core about the matter. The one faith that has the same view as Christianity is Islam, and even together they do not represent the majority of people living today. In Hinduism a shrine is just as likely to have a representation of Kali as it is to have one of Brahma, and a god like Shiva has both positive and negative aspects.

In short, that town's main shrine may well have both Torm and Bane represented. With both being worshipped for the purpose of keeping brigands and thieves from one's home. The latter being, in effect, bribed in the hopes he'll lead burglars etc. to less observant households.

As to secret congregational religions. Aint gonna happen. People talk. People confide in their friends and in the long run the authorities are going to hear about it. Expecting the typical human to keep a secret is like expecting a cat to stay out of the kitchen at dinner time. So evil cults will be known about. What the authorities do about it depends on what the cultists do. They behave themselves and don't bother the neighbors, they'll be left alone. If they act like evil cultists in stories, the neighbors are apt to register a violent complaint with the cultists themselves.

Which leads us to the social dynamics of a society with limited mobility. When your family has lived at the same location for the generations it changes how you get along with the neighbors. Evil cults in the modern sense are really only possible in a society where people can, and are expected to, move on a frequent basis.

Adventure Seed: Rumors of an evil cult have surfaced in a large city. The authorities don't seem concerned about it, but the cult's neighbors are worried. The PCs are hired to investigate and determine if the cult is a danger to the community. Warning: Destroying the cult could be a violation of local law if the cult is not engaged in illegal activity. (And what is illegal in modern American society may not be illegal in a GM's imaginary town.)

(Bane: I introduced pot smoking and bacchanals as a way to keep them out of trouble. They get wasted and crash. Keeps them from raising caine and getting killed, and I get to keep more worshippers. You have a higher divine social standing when you have lots of worshippers.)
 

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Too much depends on the social set up of the campaign world. If it has a large dominating church, then there might only be one. If everybody is divided equally, I'd say it could handle up to five temples with a preist, family and a couple of helpers/alcolytes each. If it was a secular society where tything is not mandatory, perhaps much less.

Were it my campaign world, there would be one main church with the head priests being husband and wife. One being the priest of the father figure head of the pantheon and the other being the priest of the wife type figure who looks over crops. There is mandatory tything of 10% to the churches as demanded by the local lord and in return the clerics give free healing and such to their congregation and aid the lord in maintaining his domain. They would probably have a few alcolytes under them of the same faith and as the lord may need or traditionally maintain, there might be a few other smaller churches with preists of the other gods. Other shrines would be in the main church for gods of the pnatheon in good standing who are nor otherwise represented. Being a trade city, there would most likely be some clerics of the various non-human religions such as dwarven or elvish gods. Unless they did regular trade with such races, those preists would also either get a cut of the tythes for aiding the lord or have other means of making money (eg a dwarven cleric as one of the towns weapon and armor smiths).
 

In a town that size, you could maybe affort a small (2-5) clan of vampires, maybe as many werewolves, possibly a half celestial protector, a few skeletons in the graveyard.

What? Oh, templES. Sorry.
 

mythusmage said:
BTW, D&D's treatment of evil gods is an artifact of the Christian view of evil. Other faiths tend to be less hard core about the matter. The one faith that has the same view as Christianity is Islam, and even together they do not represent the majority of people living today. In Hinduism a shrine is just as likely to have a representation of Kali as it is to have one of Brahma, and a god like Shiva has both positive and negative aspects.
Thanks for that post, as I think that this is a very important point. Religion in D&D, though superficially polytheistic, is more or less a carbon copy of Christian worship patterns. This is even true in the case of evil deities, because here the worship is pictured like devil worship as it was painted by the inquisition. In this regard, D&D doesn't look far beyond the familiar.
 

My local paper did a spread a few weeks ago that listed every in/near city limits. I counted 85 for an approximate population of 10,000. While that probably includes drawing power from miles around, it didn't include other churches several miles away, so I think it probably averages out.

Based on the size of most churches I've seen, I assumed about 50 people per church, so there is room for probably half the population at the same time (if all of them cared to go). While I'd say most are still at half or less capacity, it should still give some idea.
 

I stayed once in Pushkar in India. 18,000 people, pilgrim city; has over 500 temples/shrines. It's not representative of course, but there can be many places of worship in even small towns. They have the only Brahma exclusive temple in India. It's pretty from the outside, but I didn't go in.

joe b.
 

Here's a good question: What kind of memberships did Medieval Cathedrals for large cities have?
And for that matter, what was the figure for smaller towns and thorps?
 

Henry said:
Here's a good question: What kind of memberships did Medieval Cathedrals for large cities have?
And for that matter, what was the figure for smaller towns and thorps?

Well, a typical village in the champion country of England (the area where open-field agriculture was practised) had about 1,000 to 2,000 population and one church.
 

The first question you have to ask yourself is: what is the temple for? In a polytheistic system, a god is usually popularly honoured in two ways:
- individual or family devotions at a household shrine (think modern Chinese kitchen gods)
- a festival or procession a couple of times a year
Beyond these forms of popular worship, the god probably only has ongoing significance to a small group of clergy and initiates probably requiring little more than a small shrine. Unless,
- the god's idol has theurgic or other magical properties, in which case, because it, in some way, contains a portion of the deity and acts in the real world, requires opulent housing
- the shrine is part of a larger public building that doubles as performing some other function like theatre, palace, council house, customs house, market square, etc.
- the god's manifestation is linked with a local natural feature like a grove, rock formation, waterfall, etc.
- a wealthy benefactor has decided to build/endow a temple for some reason, possibly to thank the god for help in the past, propitiate it for an offence or seek its ongoing aid
in which case the god will probably have a large temple.

It is important to recognize that, unlike Christianity, geography matters and has real meaning in almost all polytheistic belief systems. For this reason, questions of local resources and wealth are of less utility than you might think in making such an evaluation. Also remember that early medieval Christian geography had a lot to do with replacing or converting shrines and temples built on the principles I just outlined or establishing nearby counter-shrines.

EDIT: So, my advice is this: design your town's topography and figure out how the local gods are worshipped. Then you can start mapping temples onto the town. Who knows how many you might end up with.
 

mythusmage said:
Does the culture have congregational worship?
Your post hits the nail right on the head mythusmage! As you can see, I've kind of taken off from it in mine.
As to secret congregational religions. Aint gonna happen. People talk. People confide in their friends and in the long run the authorities are going to hear about it.
Yes. But public secrets were a big part of the social order of most polytheistic societies. "Don't ask/Don't tell," was a powerful cohesive social principle that dominated most societies right up to the Renaissance. BUt that's the only thing in your post with which I disagree.
 

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