How many times do you let players roll Spot, Search, Listen, etc.?

[dreaded_beast]

I ran my very first adventure last nite and ran into the "problem" of my single player asking for a multitude of Spot, Search, and Listen checks. I let her do it as many times as she asked, since according to my understanding of the rules, you can retry as many times as you like. Whenever, she got a fairly low roll, she would just do it again until she got a good one.

I don't have too much of a problem with this, but I was wondering if there was a better way to handle this?

I told her about the taking 10 and taking 20 rules, but I'm not sure if they would work for Spot, etc. To speed up my game, I decided that they could work, so she started taking 10's etc, but never a 20 since I told her for Search it would take around an hour or so. Hse never asked to a 20 for Spot or Listen. She figured it that in general, it would be better to roll, just taking a round for each roll and trying to get a 20, instead of taking a 20.

Any advice on how to handle this? I want to stay true to the rules, but the game was getting a bit bogged down by all the rolls.

 

[MerakSpielman]

I'd allow for taking 20 for a listen, if there's no immediate danger. Spot, though, is not (usually) a check you choose to make. If something is hiding, you always have a chance of noticing it, so the DM asks for a Spot check. The fact that there was something hiding is what triggered the Spot check. If the player says, "I try to spot him," then you're (probably) in a situation where you should have asked them for a spot check already anyway.

Search is a different matter. Players only get to roll search checks when they decide they want to search for something.

Also, it is best to roll certain checks secretly, including Listen, Search, Spot, Pick Pockets, Move Silently, etc... It's hard for players to avoid metagaming when they know their character rolled a 1 on their listen/search check, as opposed to you just saying "you don't hear/find anything" again.

I do allow them to roll usually-secret things themselves when they're in a dramatic situation. In this case, I'll tell them the DC and they get to use their own lucky dice to see if they succeed.

 

[Christian]

Regarding Search: The time requirements on Search are specifically spelled out in the rules: 1 full-round action for a 5'x5' square. That means two minutes to take 20 on searching a 5'x5' square, or just over two hours to fully search the floor, walls, and ceiling of a 20'x20'x10' room.

Note the disadvantages of rolling instead of taking 20 on a Search check: 1) since the DM rolls instead of the player on these checks, you never know for sure if you've gotten a 20, and 2) it takes almost as long in real time as in game time.

Taking 20 on Search makes sense for, say, a rogue checking a door for traps, or if you know there's a secret door somewhere in this room ...

 

[Shallown]

If they are rolling the dice themselves and see a low roll then want to check again they are meta gaming and I wouldn'tlet them try again. They are abusing the dice.

If you do it behind the screen I wouldn't allow a new one unless circumstances have changed. this includes spending more time looking/listening.

So if the character is walking down a hall and there is a noise they can hear in the distance with a DC 30 mostly for the distance. just have them roll and as they get closer (what is it like +1 to dc per ten feet) just decrease the DC until they can hear it.

Now if they stop and have everyone stop moving and remove their helmet and their head to one side I would allow a second roll since they have changed the circumstances.

My players roll spots and listens for themselves and if they roll badly the just make a character reason the missed it. Usually something like "Must have been holding that Continual flame coin to close to my eyes" or " I didn't hear anything since I had finger in my ear and was shaking it to knock loose the wax" Or as one player always says "I didn't hear them becuase of the voices in my head"

This is more a player problem then a rules issue.

But to answer your question.
I would only reroll when circumstances change.

later

 

[3d6]

If she is really that worried about missing something, just encourage her to take 20 on Spot, Listen, and Search checks to speed up the game. Just remember that taking 20 on Spot or Listen takes 1 minute, and taking 20 on Search takes 2 minutes.

 

[Stalker0]

As far as rerolling those checks... only allowing it if the situation changes to make it easier. For instance, if there's goblins behind a door, allow the party to make a listen check to hear them. If they fail they fail. However, if the goblins start to argue about something, allow them another one... but don't let them make checks just to make checks.

 

[Nifelhein]

That is why you should roll the dice behind a screen and just tell the player it has nothing or what he sees.

I usually let the players roll, but when they are at a situation where I want suspense, I roll for them, this leaves them with no clue to how well they fared...

Anyway, I would ask such a player why he wanted to reroll, as he is sure there is nothing and that his abilities are being used to the best. If the player is a munchkin master I would default every roll after the first to the first, no matter how many times he rolled.

 

[The Souljourner]

Players should never see the results of rolls whose results may not be immediately obvious. Thus, I would never let a player roll their own spot, listen, or search checks.

Also, in general, spot and listen are passive skills, which is to say, when the DM knows there's something there to see or hear, he rolls your spot check. You can't say "I want to make a spot check". You say "I look around the room carefully". But since you're pretty much always looking around carefully when you're in a dungeon or other dangerous place, you really can't give a new roll for that.

Really, you should only get one roll per x amount of time. "I stand still for 1 minute" - ok, standing still is +5 bonus to listen, and you'd get x listen rolls to hear the orcs shuffling around in the room next door. However, what X is, is really up the the DM.

As for take 10 and take 20... I wouldn't allow it with listen and spot. Sights and sounds and the human brain just aren't consistent enough for that to work. It's not like you can do an average job of noticing things... have you ever looked around for something that was right in front of you? Exactly.. you just rolled low on your spot check.

Search is different. It's an active skill .... "I ruffle through the contents of the chest".. ok, search check. "Nothing? damn, I know it's in there somewhere. I check again." ok, another 6 seconds and another search check.

Search is a huge candidate for take 10 and take 20. Unfortunately, take 20 takes a hellishly long time to do (take 10 takes the normal time, contrary to what many people think). 2 minutes per 5' square (I generalize that to a 5' cube, since D&D isn't 2-D, regardless of the name). It's easy to think of the player meticulously seaching through every single nook and cranny in a room, taking an hour to find that missing left sock.

-The Souljourner

 

[clark411]

Our gaming group rolls their own stuff, and sucks it up when they roll poorly. Roll a 3 to my Spot- I don't see the Orcs. No i don't take 20. No I don't know I did poorly... there was sand in my eyes, I was looking the wrong way.

Being able to make up for one's mistakes is sometimes okay, like not seeing the mountain immediately, but later noticing it is one thing, but anyone trying to turn their 4's into 16s with constant rerolling is abusing your good graces.

That or you're giving them Far Far too much time to reroll every 6 seconds.

 

[Agent.0.Fortune]

Unless the party is moving at a hustle I assume they are always taking 10 on spot, and listen checks. If they want to stop and "look around" I roll for them. I wouldn't allow take a take 20 spot or listen, only because there is no way to tell a critical failure (hearing a false noise) from a critical success.

They control the search checks, if they want to spend 2 minutes per 5x5x5 area they can take 20, althought the spell casters will usually encourage a quicker search. But I digress into a pacing discussion and how to prod your players onward without seeming artificial.