How many undead can a Cleric command? Moonsea has mysteries.

[porthos]

Here are the two bits of information that are tweaking my mind.

1. I'm running a "Mysteries of the Moonsea" campaign.

[POTENTIAL SPOILERS AHEAD]

In it, a 6th level Cleric is supposed to be commanding four wights ("Trouble In Pain" section with Jonah Strake, pgs 26-29). Wights are 4HD creatures. He has not created these wights himself, mind you, so we're dealing with the Cleric "Command Undead" ability, not Animate Dead or Create Undead spells.

2. Regarding commanding undead (pg. 159), the PHB says:
"At any one time, the cleric may command any number of undead whose total Hit Dice do not exceed his level."

Whose total hit dice? Of each individual undead, with no one undead having more than 6HD? Or is it the total number of hit dice for all the undead he is seeking to control?

Can a 6th level Cleric control a TOTAL of 6HD worth of undead, like six 1HD skeletons? Or can a 6th level Cleric control an infinite number of, say, 2HD zombies?

I would lean towards the first option, especially considering the next part of the description:

"He may voluntarily relinquish command on any commanded undead creature or creatures in order to command new ones."

Makes sense if you have a limited number of total hit dice you can control that you might need to swap them out from time to time.

But the the Moonsea scenario makes me think otherwise b/c there's no way the Cleric (even though he's in a desecrated temple) could "Command" all 16HD worth of wights based on that interpretation of the PHB rules.

So what's the right answer? Obviously the PHB rules are the higher authority, but is the Moonsea text providing context to better understand the PHB rule?

I apologize if this has been addressed before. I searched the forums, but didn't find anything.

 

[Alpha Polaris]

"At any one time, the cleric may command any number of undead whose total Hit Dice do not exceed his level."

I think the word "total" means that there is a sum involved, there's no point in speaking about "total hit dice" for a single creature. So the sum of hit dice for all undead controlled through the rebuke undead ability should be less than the cleric's own HD. Either the cleric in your module did not read the rules (and thus doesn't he's not allowed to command four wights), or one of the wights spawned the three other ones, and controls them on behalf of its divine master.

 

[hong]

It would be total HD of all creatures, so by the book, a 6th level cleric could command one (1) 4HD wight.

That said, this is an NPC. Screw the book! If it would be a cool challenge to have a cleric and 4 wights, then go for it.

 

[porthos]

I love the EN boards. I post Friday night at midnight, have a game with this encounter Saturday night, and I have two answers less than 12 hours later. Thank you both.

As for the wights, they were independently spawned [SPOILERS] from some cursed armor that kills the wearer and then transforms them into wights 24 hours later. So, the cleric didn't make them and one of the wights didn't make the other three.

That being said, I think I'll just run it as is. And maybe throw in a few zombies and skeletons that he animated, too.

 

[pawsplay]

Obviously, he has an item that allows him to turn/command as two levels higher, and another that doubles the HD he can control. Or maybe the area he's in doubles the HD he can control.

 

[porthos]

Obviously, he has an item that allows him to turn/command as two levels higher, and another that doubles the HD he can control. Or maybe the area he's in doubles the HD he can control.

I had the same thought at first, but there's nothing in the desecrate spell nor any item listed in his equipment that would have that effect.

Doesn't mean it won't happen anyway...

 

[Mouseferatu]

My guess is the author was simply thinking about the "4 x HD" limiter on controlling undead given in animate dead, rather than the "cannot exceed HD" limiter for rebuking/controlling. It's an easy mistake to make. I've done it myself (not in writing, but in running my own games).

 

[pawsplay]

I had the same thought at first, but there's nothing in the desecrate spell nor any item listed in his equipment that would have that effect.

Doesn't mean it won't happen anyway...

True, but the phylactery of undead turning sets the precedent for the first, and the second can extrapolated from desecrate. Maybe there's more in the Liber Mortis...

 

[Avatar of the North]

Perhaps the cleric only controls 1 of the wights and the rest are spawns of the 1st? Would be a very simple answer how he has 4 of them in total