How much do you care about "balanced" dice?

aramis erak

Legend
For me, I care enough to comment on dice I think are loaded, but not enough to balance test. I have, on occasion, run a chi² test on them - and almost every time I was concerned enough to do so, the die was unfair by 1/3 of expected on 2 numbers.

I don't allow die-rollers unless made by the game's publisher, written by me, or built-in on the platform being used.

As for the ones I wrote... I know their bias. And it's a very slight low-bias due to the nature of binary math in computers.

I will usually allow the random function on an HP calculator...
 

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ccs

41st lv DM
You can test it, if you have the courage. Roll 100 times (or more, if you like), and do a little math.

https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/70802/how-can-i-test-whether-a-die-is-fair

Note before you try this that having one's preferred narrative contradicted sometimes has adverse results. You may decide to live with your perception, rather than the harsh light of statistical analysis.

Sure, I could do that. But all it's going to tell me is finer details of it's imbalance (wich isn't terribly important to me). I already know, thanks to decades of direct observation, that it's slightly off.
 



MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
I suppose it is statistically possible that someone will roll low their entire lives. I'm too uneducated, unintelligent, and unmotivated to do the maths on this. Certainly there are some games where I just feel cursed.

I've had several session runs, over 32 hours of game play where I consistently rolled low. Even after switching dice. With and without dice towers. Even when trying computer-generated numbers. It is hard for the human mind to not get superstitious about this.

Next time this happens, I'm going to try the Crom prayer that [MENTION=6799753]lowkey13[/MENTION] posted above. May be a bit disconcerting for my players however. Seems a bit improper for the DM to say that prayer.
 

I

Immortal Sun

Guest
Not really, unless they literally drop it so it doesn’t even bounce, and drop it in the position they want, which is very hard with a d20.

And oh god have I tried. Right now I'm in the "the harder I throw it the better I feel about whatever roll" stage.
 

I

Immortal Sun

Guest
I suppose it is statistically possible that someone will roll low their entire lives. I'm too uneducated, unintelligent, and unmotivated to do the maths on this. Certainly there are some games where I just feel cursed.

I've had several session runs, over 32 hours of game play where I consistently rolled low. Even after switching dice. With and without dice towers. Even when trying computer-generated numbers. It is hard for the human mind to not get superstitious about this.

Next time this happens, I'm going to try the Crom prayer that @lowkey13 posted above. May be a bit disconcerting for my players however. Seems a bit improper for the DM to say that prayer.

I have a player who cannot roll well....but only when shooting a bow. Considering her character is a Ranger and that's all they do (or at least the main thing hers does)...it's not a pretty sight. I swear there was a whole session where she didn't break a 6, across multiple dice.
 
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Ratskinner

Adventurer
No, they have a die they *think* rolls high. Remember, you are talking about a species that thinks that their favorite sports team will perform badly if we wear the wrong socks on game day.

It is much more likely to be perception rather than reality - unless they actually rolled a bunch of times, recorded the rolls, and did a statistical analysis, their perception is subject to all the usual human cognitive biases. That die probably just happened to roll well in a couple of dramatic game moments, and got labelled "lucky". The times it rolls a 2 when it doesn't really matter are probably discarded from consideration.

For most dice, I agree. With d20s not so much. A few years ago, I was intrigued by some videos on the internet with people testing their dice by floating them in water (put Epsom Salt in the water if they sink). I found plenty of bias with the water test. (As in, every die seemed to float a particular way.) When I checked them by rolling the dice a ridiculous number of times, I noticed that only the d20s seemed likely to bear out biases related to their floating results. "Speckled" d20's were the worst, as they would show biases without obvious physical defects. Most of the other dice types (by material) that showed bias had obvious physical defects like some numbers worn out, etc. Some of the speckled d20s could show pretty strong bias that didn't take very long to show.*

I suspect that the other dice sizes just really don't "roll" enough for it to matter much, but that d20s that are tumble-sanded are close enough to round for the biases to matter.

Now, for a player playing a caster, that d20 bias might not matter. But for a fighter-type, it could have a huge impact long-term. (At least, if you play with that die as often as we play.) However, even then it can depend on exactly how the die is biased. Many of the d20's would have 2-4 results that were more likely to come up. But! Often the results were on opposite ends of the scale. (sure you roll more 18's, but you also roll more 4's...good luck with that.)


* Examples that I recall:
1) one green gem d20 had an obvious molding issue around some of the numbers. It rolled '17' with alarming regularity, but didn't seem to have any other disparities (the other results all seemed equally depressed by all the 17's).
2) a purple speckled d20 rolled '12' about 4 times more often that expected and '4' almost twice as often as expected.
3) a really old yellow d20 with obvious erosion/wear on some of the corners practically refused to roll a '1'.
4) a horrible speckled die with yellow, blue, and white speckles. I got it in the bargain bin, and it must have had a void or something to go with the ugly. You could watch it spin off-center in the air and it just loved rolling 16 or one of the faces adjacent to 16.
5) a rusty-red d12 speckled die. The only non-d20 die I recall with an issue, but its biases were right on the edge of statistical significance.
 

GreyLord

Legend
Well, if you are a DM there are things you can do if you notice a player is consistently rolling low over several sessions.

I HAVE noticed this on occasion and if it is consistent, start offering to let the player do what I call reverse rolls.

What this means, is the player can elect to allow the DM to interpret their die roll as the exact opposite number. They can make this choice during a session and change their mind before a die roll during a session. Once the choice is made for a die roll...it sticks though.

Thus, if they roll a 20...it's going to be a 1 (what a waste of a 20...but if the player elected before hand for this option...).

On the otherhand, if they roll a 5 it will be a 16, or if they roll a 6 it will be a 15.

Here's where superstition comes in. I find when doing this, rolls start to turn good again...and it cures the curse of a low roller.
 

I did this for a player once. Indeed, the dice switched to rolling higher numbers, so the curse continued. Then, when we switched to regular roles, they flopped back to rolling low. The dice know, somehow.

I HAVE noticed this on occasion and if it is consistent, start offering to let the player do what I call reverse rolls...

Here's where superstition comes in. I find when doing this, rolls start to turn good again...and it cures the curse of a low roller.
 

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