How Much Do You Care About Novelty?

[Micah Sweet]

I'm not arguing, but can you provide an alternative system that is as easy to use and learn (keeping in mind nearly all gamers already know the other way), and that allows for the same kind of game events.

Yeah, but there's no reason to really have them increase at all. That's an artifact of deciding that higher level fighters should be able to take the kind of pummelling some larger monsters do and not die, while still having a simplistic damage system. I know you're broadly knowledgeable enough in the field to know that there are a lot of other solutions to giving higher level types better defenses that don't involve playing with their damage absorption. They aren't even meaningfully more complex in many cases.

What they don't do, is make it so experienced characters can be hit by a giant and not be probably at least be out of combat.

 

[Micah Sweet]

And maybe that's an argument with the D&D-sphere proper. I don't think its an excuse for using that framework in genres where for the most part the structure sticks out like a sore thumb. Its privileging familiarity over utility a bit too much.

That just breaks down to a matter of subjective preference. Also keep in mind that it's never just you. You have to find other folks who are good with following your preference.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I'm not arguing, but can you provide an alternative system that is as easy to use and learn (keeping in mind nearly all gamers already know the other way), and that allows for the same kind of game events.

We need to know what you mean by "the same kind of game events", because this is a strange question.

I say it's a strange question, because, broadly speaking, there are multitude of RPGs which don't have escalating HP per level (and indeed don't use levels at all in many cases), where the PCs:

1) Are adventurers in a fantasy world.

2) Fight foul beasts and monsters, often multiple times per day.

3) Get treasure.

I can list them if you want, but I'm going to be potentially listing a whole bunch of games. Hell, Dungeon World even does a very close-to-D&D thing, plays pretty much exactly like D&D, and even has HP (unlike most PtbA games), but they don't escalate with level, and it works perfectly.

So you really need to specify what "game events" you're thinking might not happen without escalating HP.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I'm not sure. Fighting powerful monsters similar to those faced in D&D (without resorting to narrative-focused mechanics)?

We need to know what you mean by "the same kind of game events", because this is a strange question.

I say it's a strange question, because, broadly speaking, there are multitude of RPGs which don't have escalating HP per level (and indeed don't use levels at all in many cases), where the PCs:

1) Are adventurers in a fantasy world.

2) Fight foul beasts and monsters, often multiple times per day.

3) Get treasure.

I can list them if you want, but I'm going to be potentially listing a whole bunch of games. Hell, Dungeon World even does a very close-to-D&D thing, plays pretty much exactly like D&D, and even has HP (unlike most PtbA games), but they don't escalate with level, and it works perfectly.

So you really need to specify what "game events" you're thinking might not happen without escalating HP.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I'm not arguing, but can you provide an alternative system that is as easy to use and learn (keeping in mind nearly all gamers already know the other way), and that allows for the same kind of game events.

If your criteria is "as easy to learn as something you already know" that's pretty tautological. Also, I'd need "allows for the same kind of game events" to be defined, since depending on that definition its also tautological.

 

[Thomas Shey]

That just breaks down to a matter of subjective preference. Also keep in mind that it's never just you. You have to find other folks who are good with following your preference.

That's a factor, but its not an unlimited get-out-of-jail-free card for using wrenches as hammers.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I'm not sure. Fighting powerful monsters similar to those faced in D&D (without resorting to narrative-focused mechanics)?

Do Savage Worlds bennies count as "narrative focused mechanics"? Because, honestly, they're not materially moreso than hit points already are on the defense. Heck, you could house rule them so that's all they do (allow Soak) if you wanted to.

You also have to define "powerful". If its "does massive damage", well, duh, nothing is going to do that without some kind of narrative conceit; D&D just has one baked in.

 

[Thomas Shey]

That just breaks down to a matter of subjective preference.

Also, I think there's at least something beyond "subjective preference" when, as RE has noted, one permits events the other doesn't. At the very least you need to look at whether the kind of events are common in the genre as to whether the mechanics are serving that genre well. As an example "take hits from things that do massive damage" isn't actually common in fantasy (and the subplaces where it is usually involve overtly superhuman protagonists), whereas "can take out opponents with one hit by surprise" is absolutely common with spy stories and adjacent genres. So using a system that does the former is a questionable choice for generic fantasy usage and a clear downside for the latter.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That's a factor, but its not an unlimited get-out-of-jail-free card for using wrenches as hammers.

No, but if you can't find players who want to learn how to use a new hammer, what are you going to do?

 

[Micah Sweet]

Do Savage Worlds bennies count as "narrative focused mechanics"? Because, honestly, they're not materially moreso than hit points already are on the defense. Heck, you could house rule them so that's all they do (allow Soak) if you wanted to.

You also have to define "powerful". If its "does massive damage", well, duh, nothing is going to do that without some kind of narrative conceit; D&D just has one baked in.

I do count bennies as narrative-focused mechanics, yes.

And by powerful I mean creatures that are presented as powerful in traditional RPGs (dragons, demons, giants, etc).